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You must have heard of "mesh," "Wi-Fi system," or "mesh Wi-Fi system," and might even have some idea of what they are. They refer to the same thing. And this post is a lot more than just semantics.
I'll explain this type of Wi-Fi solution in simple terms and offer tips on how to build an optimal one for your home. Sometimes, the little things I mention here can make a big difference.
Right off the bat, similar to the case of getting a single router, only you would know which mesh system fits you best—no "expert" can decide that for you from afar. There's no one-size-fits-all Wi-Fi solution. This post aims to point you in the right direction.
Tip
There is no such thing as the "best" routers for a particular Internet service provider or type—Fiber-optic, Cable, or whatever.
If you run into that type of information somewhere on the Internet, it's likely nonsense content written for SEO purposes.
Any standard router, including the primary unit of a mesh Wi-Fi system, will work at its full potential with any standard Internet broadband terminal device—modem, Fiber-optic ONT, or others. That's true as long as the two can connect via a network cable, which is almost always the case.
Compatibility is generally applicable only between a terminal device and the ISP. For example, certain modems or gateways work with Comcast Xfinity, while others might not.
In relatively rare non-standard cases, some Fiber-optic lines might require a router that supports VLAN tagging (a.k.a IPTV). The majority of Wi-Fi 6 and newer routers support this.
Mesh Wi-Fi systems: It’s more than lumping a bunch of broadcasters together
A mesh Wi-Fi system has more names than those mentioned above, but "mesh" is a short and sweet moniker. I like it.
The mesh concept has been around for a long time in enterprise applications. In February 2016, mesh entered the consumer-grade space in a big way when a company named eero—all lowercase—announced the original eero Wi-Fi system. Since then, there's been a boom in home mesh options, and the rest is history.
With that, let's start with the simple question: What constitutes a mesh?
What is a mesh?
In a sentence, a mesh consists of multiple centrally managed Wi-Fi broadcasters working together to form a unified Wi-Fi network. Among them, there's one primary router that handles routing, network settings/features, and Internet connectivity. The rest only expand the network's coverage.
Initially, "mesh" meant using multiple centrally managed Wi-Fi broadcasters wirelessly linked together to create a single network. Nowadays, using network cables as the backhaul links is commonplace—it's the only way to get the best-performing system, as described below.
Still, some online "experts"—there are a lot of them these days—have mocked me, privately or publicly, that using network cables negates the mesh notion. "It's not a mesh anymore!" they say, and they might be right. But in my real-world experience, wired backhauling is the best way to build a network, including a (mesh) Wi-Fi system. Ultimately, it's about getting things connected, not a nerding contest.
There are two ends to a Wi-Fi connection: the broadcasting and the receiving. In the traditional infrastructure configuration, a Wi-Fi broadcaster is always an access point, which can be part of another device, such as a Wi-Fi router. One Wi-Fi broadcaster can handle multiple recipients—the clients or devices.
To form a mesh, you need at least two separate Wi-Fi broadcasters. Many purpose-built mesh systems are available as a 2-pack, including a Wi-Fi router and an additional unit that relays the router's signals to expand the coverage.
These hardware units are called different things by different vendors, such as base stations, access points, nodes, satellites, hubs, mesh points, Wi-Fi points, routers, etc.
However, in all cases, one of them acts as the primary unit (the router) to connect to the Internet—each network only needs one router—and the rest of the hardware units link back to this router unit to extend the Wi-Fi coverage.
This link is called the backhaul to distinguish itself from, well, the fronthaul. Let's get on the same page about these terms.
Backhaul vs. fronthaul
When you use multiple Wi-Fi broadcasters—in a mesh network or a combo of a router and an extender—there are two types of connections: fronthaul and backhaul.
Fronthaul is the Wi-Fi signals broadcast outward for clients or the local area network (LAN) ports for wired devices. It's what we generally expect from a Wi-Fi broadcaster.
Backhaul (a.k.a backbone,) on the other hand, is the link between one satellite Wi-Fi broadcaster and another, which can be the network's primary router, a switch, or another satellite unit.
This link works behind the scenes to keep the hardware units together as a system. It also determines the ceiling bandwidth (and speed) of all devices connected to the particular broadcaster. It's the backbone of the system.
At the satellite/extender unit, the connection used for the backhaul—a Wi-Fi link or a network port—is often called the uplink. Generally, a Wi-Fi broadcaster might use one of its bands (2.4GHz, 5GHz, or 6GHz) or a network port for the uplink.
When a Wi-Fi band handles backhaul and fronthaul simultaneously, only half its bandwidth is available to either end. From the perspective of a connected client, that phenomenon is called signal loss.
A Wi-Fi connection between two direct parties occurs in a single band, using one fixed channel, at any given time. This principle applies to all existing Wi-Fi standards, up to Wi-Fi 6E.
When a Wi-Fi band functions solely for backhauling, it's called the dedicated backhaul. Often, that means no other band will do this job, though that depends on the hardware.
In a mesh system, only traditional Tri-band hardware—those with an additional 5GHz band—can have a dedicated backhaul band without ostracizing clients of the same band.
Generally, it's best to use network cables for backhauling—wired backhauling, which is an advantage of mesh hardware with network ports. In this case, a satellite broadcaster can use its entire Wi-Fi bandwidth for front-hauling.
In networking, network cables are always much better than wireless in speed and reliability.
With that, let's find out when a mesh system is necessary.
When do you need a mesh?
Generally, it's best to have just one broadcaster—typically a Wi-Fi router—in a home or an office to avoid interference. Sometimes, all you need is to place it near the center of the desired coverage.
In a situation where a single router doesn't provide enough Wi-Fi coverage, we need more broadcasters, and that's when a mesh is applicable.
As far as Wi-Fi is concerned, more hardware is not necessarily better. A mesh is not an upgrade to a single broadcaster in terms of performance—it's a necessary alternative in signal range. Besides the coverage, a Wi-Fi system doesn't solve any problems you might have with a single router of the same specs and feature set. Using multiple broadcasters too close to one another can be a bad thing.
It's hard to say precisely when a mesh is needed. But generally, if your place is airy and around 1800 ft2 (167 m2), you probably only need a single broadcaster. In this case, a standalone Wi-Fi router near the center is better than getting a mesh.
A quick refresher: A Wi-Fi broadcaster's coverage depends a lot on the layout of your home, the number of walls, where you place a broadcaster, etc. The cabinet below will give you some highlights on general expectations in the Wi-Fi range.
Extra: Wi-Fi range in brief
Wi-Fi range in theory: It’s “clean” and generous
The way radio signals work is that the lower the frequency, the longer the wave can travel. AM and FM radios use frequency measured in kilohertz and megahertz—you can listen to the same station in a vast area, like an entire region or a city.
Wi-Fi uses 2.4GHz, 5GHz, and 6GHz frequencies—all are incredibly high. As a result, they have much shorter ranges compared to radios. That's especially true when considering the broadcasting power of Wi-Fi broadcasters is limited by regulations.
The highest allowed broadcasting power for Wi-Fi in the U.S. is 1 watt or 30 dBm. Wi-Fi 7's Automated Frequency Coordination (AFC) increases this, but only enough to compensate for the fact that the 6GHz is inherently short in range.
But, regardless of Wi-Fi standards, these bands generally share the following: The higher frequencies (in Hz), the higher the bandwidth (speeds), the shorter the ranges, and the more bandwidth progressively lost over increasing distance.
Generally, physically larger Wi-Fi broadcasters tend to have better ranges than smaller ones—they use all the allowed broadcasting power and have enough processing power to deliver the most bandwidth at the far end of the signals. Still, it's impossible to accurately determine each's actual coverage because it fluctuates wildly and depends heavily on the environment.
That said, here are my estimates of a home Wi-Fi broadcaster's ranges in the best-case scenario, specifically:
- Outdoor environment
- On a sunny day
- No interference or broadcasters in close proximity
- Maximum broadcasting power (30 dBm)
Note that Wi-Fi signals don't die abruptly but gradually degrade as you get farther away from the broadcaster. The distances mentioned below are when a client still receives signals strong enough for a meaningful connection. Wi-Fi performance also depends on hardware and Wi-Fi standards—a Wi-Fi 7 router is not better than a Wi-Fi 5 one, in range and whatnot, if the network consists mainly of Wi-Fi 5 and older clients.
- 2.4GHz: This band has the best range, up to 200 ft (≈ 60 m). However, this is the most popular band. It's also used by non-Wi-Fi devices like cordless phones or TV remotes. Its real-world speeds suffer severely from interference and other things. As a result, for years, this band has been considered a backup, applicable when the range is more important than speed.
- 5GHz: This band has much faster speeds than the 2.4GHz band but shorter ranges, maxing out at around 150 ft (≈ 45 m).
- 6GHz: This is the latest band available. Two things to keep in mind:
- Wi-Fi 6E: The first standard supporting this band where it shares the same ceiling speed as the 5GHz. However, thanks to the less interference and overheads, its actual real-world rate is faster. In return, due to the higher frequency, it has just about 70% of the range, which maxes out at approximately 115 ft (≈ 35m).
- Wi-Fi 7: This is the latest standard where the 6GHz band's channel width (and bandwidth) is doubled. Additionally, with a broadcaster that supports AFC, such as the Asus ZenWiFi BQ16 Pro, this band gets a boost in broadcasting power to deliver the same range as that of the 5GHz.
Wi-Fi range in real life: The devil is in the little and big details
In real-world usage, Wi-Fi broadcasters in the same frequency band and broadcasting power generally deliver the same coverage. Specifically, they are all the same if you measure the signal reach alone.
What differentiates them is their sustained speeds and signal stability, or how the quality of their Wi-Fi signals changes as you increase the distance. And that generally varies from one model or Wi-Fi standard to another.
Your router's Wi-Fi range is always much shorter than the theoretical number mentioned above. That's because Wi-Fi signals are sensitive to interference and obstacles.
While the Wi-Fi range doesn't depend on the channel width, the wider the channel and the higher the frequency, the less stable it becomes. It's more susceptible to interference and obstacles, and its range is more acutely hindered. So, within the same standard, more bandwidth generally equals higher fragility.
Below are the items that will affect Wi-Fi ranges.
It's worth noting that the new 6GHz band generally doesn't suffer from same-band interference other than when you use multiple broadcasters nearby. On the other hand, the 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands have a long list of other non-Wi-Fi applications that can harm their ranges, and there are always many broadcasters in close proximity using these bands when you live in an urban neighborhood.
Common 2.4 GHz interference sources: Impossible to measure
- Other 2.4 GHz Wi-Fi broadcasters in the vicinity
- 2.4GHz cordless phones and other appliances
- Fluorescent bulbs
- Bluetooth devices
- Microwave ovens
Common 5 GHz interference sources: Impossible to measure
- Other nearby 5GHz Wi-Fi broadcasters
- 5GHz cordless telephones and other appliances
- Radars
- Digital satellites
Common signal blockage for all Wi-Fi bands: Measurable, albeit challenging, walls and large objects
Physical objects, such as appliances or elevators, hinder all Wi-Fi bands. However, walls are the most problematic obstacle since they are everywhere. Different types of walls block Wi-Fi signals differently, but no wall is good for Wi-Fi.
Here are my rough real-life estimations of how much a wall blocks Wi-Fi signals—generally use the low number for the 2.4GHz and the high one for the 5GHz, add another 10%-15% to the 5GHz's for the 6GHz band:
- A thin, porous wall (wood, sheetrock, drywall, etc.) will block between 5% and 30% of Wi-Fi signals—a router's range will be much shorter when placed next to it.
- A thick porous wall: 20% to 40%.
- A thin nonporous wall (concrete, metal, ceramic tile, brick with mortar, etc.): 30% to 50%.
- A thick nonporous wall: 50% to 90%.
#2 and #3 apply to most walls in residential homes. #4 is the case of condos in high rises or walls around bathrooms.
Again, these numbers are just ballpark, but you can use them to know how far the signal will reach when you place a Wi-Fi broadcaster at a specific spot in your home. A simple rule is that more walls equal worse coverage, and generally, a single wall will reduce the signal by approximately 30%.
That said, in real life, when all adverse elements are taken into account, and depending on the situation and where you stand from the broadcaster, we need to discount the theoretical ranges mentioned above between 40% and 90% to get a broadcaster's realistic coverage.
Note, though, that just because you have multiple Wi-Fi broadcasters in a network doesn't mean you automatically have a mesh system. As mentioned above, having two or more hardware pieces is only part of the requirements. Let's take a closer look.
Mesh system vs. individual extenders or access points
A mesh system consists of multiple Wi-Fi broadcasters (access points or extenders) that work together and can be managed in one place, such as a mobile app or the primary router unit's web user interface.
In a mesh with wireless backhauling, each satellite unit is essentially a centrally managed Wi-Fi extender. In a mesh with wired backhauling, each satellite unit is essentially a centrally managed access point.
The most significant difference between a mesh system and using multiple individually managed broadcasters is that the former gives you better ease of use, low (or no) interference between broadcasters, and seamless handoff, while the latter doesn't.
Extenders are quick and dirty fixes that work to only some extent, but your network will likely break when you change your Wi-Fi settings (SSID, password, and so on). On the other hand, thanks to the wired backhauling, an individually managed access point can deliver excellent performance.
Access points always deliver better performance than extenders or wireless mesh satellites of the same Wi-Fi grade.
The access point mode of a mesh system
When you put the primary unit of a mesh system (the router unit) into access point mode, the entire system works in this mode to extend the network of the initial router. This still allows you to manage the Wi-Fi settings of all mesh units via the primary unit's management interface.
However, this AP-mode-as-a-system is not available in all mesh brands. Some canned systems, such as Google Nest Wifi, only have this AP mode when you use each hardware unit individually. Among DIY mesh approaches, Wi-Fi EasyMesh is the sole that doesn't support this, either.
Mesh Wi-Fi network: The benefits
Using a real mesh network has many advantages over lumping a bunch of Wi-Fi broadcasters together willy-nilly. Specifically, there are three main things to gain from a Wi-Fi system:
1. Ease of use
A Wi-Fi system is easy to set up. At most, you only need to set up the primary node (the router). After that, the rest of the satellite will replicate the Wi-Fi settings and expand the coverage.
That's the case in the ongoing management, too. For example, you only have to do that on the router unit when changing Wi-Fi settings, such as the network name (SSID) or password. The system will apply that to the satellites automatically.
2. Seamless handoff
In a mesh, it's easier to have continuous connectivity on your device when roaming from one broadcaster to another, as though there's just one.
Specifically, as you roam around within a mesh's Wi-Fi coverage, the device in your hand will automatically switch to the broadcaster with the best signals. Additionally, signals from one mesh unit don't adversely interfere with those of another.
By the way, signal handoff works on a band-per-band basis and doesn't require Smart Connect, which involves naming all bands as a single network (SSID).
The seamless handoff also applies when two or more satellites are in a wireless setup.
In this case, a satellite will automatically pick which other satellite or the primary router to form the backhaul link, depending on the real-time condition.
Notes on the seamless handoff
It's important not to take seamless literally. That doesn't exist.
Physically, the client needs to disconnect itself from one broadcaster and move to another, and there's always a brief interruption during the process—it's a matter of how quickly. It's seamless when it happens so fast that you don't notice it.
However, you will generally notice the interruption if you use real-time communication apps, such as Wi-Fi calling or video conferencing. To avoid that, pick a location with solid signals and stay there.
However, if you stream a video or do general web surfing, file downloading, etc. The transition can appear seamless.
Here are a few things to keep in mind:
- For seamless handoff to work, involved hardware devices on both sides (broadcasters and clients) must support the IEEE 802.11r, 802.11v, or 802.11k standard.
- Most Wi-Fi systems and clients support at least one standard above, but there's a chance they don't feature the same one, so seamless handoff is not a sure thing. In any case, turning Wi-Fi off and back on, or disconnecting and then reconnecting to the SSID, is the sure way for the client to connect to the best mesh broadcaster.
- It's the speed that matters. If your connection is fast enough for your task, there's no need to be concerned about which mesh point within the system your device connects to.
- Wi-Fi doesn't follow human logic in terms of distances. Within a specific range where signals are consistently strong (or weak) to a certain extent, devices might not see anything better or worse between closer or farther broadcasters.
- The oversensitive handoff is not a good thing. Constant jumping from one broadcaster to another will cause unstable connectivity.
In my experience, via testing hundreds of hardware devices, the seamless handoff is almost always hit or miss. It varies depending on your existing router, clients, and other factors. Many mobile devices—especially those from Apple—generally have limited or no support for seamless handoff.
Mesh hardware often uses the connection speed as the base for the hand-off.
Specifically, a client would consider jumping from one broadcaster to another only when the connection speed between it and the current broadcaster is no longer fast enough for its general bandwidth needs.
Depending on the situation and varying by hardware or Wi-Fi standard, this threshold can be very low, like 50Mbps, because most clients generally don't need more than that in real-world usage.
In any case, this is the reason why in specific mesh setups, devices are more clingy to a far mesh node—they don't reach the speed threshold required for the jump yet.
3. Better performance
All the broadcasters work together as a single unified Wi-Fi network in a mesh. As a result, they leverage one another's Wi-Fi signals to deliver the best efficiency instead of working independently.
For this reason, multiple wireless mesh satellites generally have better performance and reliability than using extenders of the same Wi-Fi grade at the exact locations.
Still, wireless backhauling is temperamental, and using network cables to link the broadcasters—wired backhauling—is the best way to build a well-performing mesh Wi-Fi system.
Signal loss: The biggest drawback of wirelessly connecting broadcasters
There's always signal degradation due to distance or interference when wirelessly linking Wi-Fi broadcasters. And, if you use dual-band (or Tri-band Wi-Fi 6E) hardware, there's also this phenomenon I'd call signal loss.
That's when a satellite broadcaster's wireless band receives and rebroadcasts Wi-Fi signals simultaneously. Because it has to do two things simultaneously, the band has, at most, only 50 percent of its bandwidth on either end. Again, it's important to note that the backhaul link is all the bandwidth the broadcaster has for all of its connected clients.
For example, the Asus RP-AX56, a dual-stream (2x2) AX1800 broadcaster, has up to 1200Mbps on the 5GHz band and 600Mbps on the 2.4GHz band. In a wireless setup—as a standard extender or an AiMesh mesh satellite—there are two scenarios:
- The 5GHz band works as the backhaul: Half of its bandwidth is used for the backhaul link, delivering the theoretical fronthaul ceiling speed of up to 600Mbps. The 2.4GHz clients can enjoy this band's full bandwidth, which is 600MHz.
- When the 2.4GHz works as the backhaul: Half the band's bandwidth (300Mbps) is used for backhauling, which is shared between all clients connected to both bands.
The speed numbers above are theoretical. In real-world usage, the actual sustained rates will be markedly lower due to distance, interference, and additional overhead.
Mesh Wi-Fi network and Wi-Fi 6E
Starting in 2021, we have new hardware that supports Wi-Fi 6E.
Wi-Fi 6E has a new 6GHz band. For compatibility reasons, all of its hardware (broadcasters and clients) will come with three bands, including 2.4GHz, 5GHz, and 6GHz. It's a new type of Tri-band instead of the traditional tri-band (2.4GHz + 5GHz + 5GHz).
Having three different bands, a Wi-Fi 6E broadcaster is not better than a tri-band Wi-Fi 6 counterpart in a wireless mesh configuration. Like dual-band Wi-Fi 6 or 5 hardware, it has no extra band working as the dedicated backhaul.
In other words, a tri-band Wi-Fi 6E mesh is similar to a dual-band Wi-Fi 6 or Wi-Fi 5 counterpart in wireless backhauling. Consequently, a tri-band Wi-Fi 6E mesh system also suffers significantly from signal loss unless used via wired backhauling.
To fight signal loss, networking vendors use hardware with an additional 5GHz band (5GHz + 5GHz + 2.4GHz).
Netgear is the pioneer on this front with its Orbi product line, which dedicates the second 5 GHz band to backhauling. This type of dedicated backhaul allows the other two bands to focus on serving clients.
Even then, you still have to deal with Wi-Fi signals getting weaker over the range. So, the best way to combat signal loss and degradation in a wireless backhauling mesh is to set up your system correctly.
Mesh Wi-Fi systems vs. non-mesh: The summary table
The table below includes a general idea of when you should use a mesh system vs. other non-mesh hardware, namely independent extenders or access points.
| Overall Grade | Speed (at the router) | Speed (at satellite) | Seemless handoff | Top Applicable Broadband Speed (real-world performance) | Note | |
| Mesh with Multi-Gig wired backhauling | Ultimate | Gigabit or faster | Gigabit or faster | Yes | Multi-Gigabit | Performance decided by port grade |
| Mesh with Gigabit wired backhauling | Best | Gigabit or faster | Gigabit at most | Yes | Gigabit | Generally, Gigabit is the top speed |
| Router + Access point | Good | Gigabit or faster | Gigabit or faster | Maybe | Gigabit and faster | Performance decided by port grade; Can be a real mesh system with certain hardware |
| Mesh with mixed wired and wireless backhauling | OK to Good | Gigabit or faster | depend on the backhaul | Yes | Gigabit | Slow performance at the wireless satellite |
| Mesh with wireless backhauling | OK | Gigabit or faster | Sub-Gigabit or slower; Potentially 50% signal loss; Performance at satellites depends heavily on the backhaul range | Yes | ≈500Mbps or slower | Slow performance overall |
| Router + Extenders | Bad | Gigabit or faster | Sub-Gigabit or slower; 50% signal loss | No | ≈150Mbps or slower | Slow performance; Hard to manage; Potentially unreliable |
The takeaway
A mesh is much more than using a few extenders or access points in your network. The hardware pieces need to work together in a centrally managed system via the primary router or a controller to deliver a seamless network.
It's worth noting that a mesh Wi-Fi system is not meant to be an upgrade to a single router—it's a necessary alternative in terms of signal coverage.
Finally, when it comes to building a mesh, getting your home wired is the best approach. That's the only way to simplify and figure-proof your tech and enjoy the true speed of Wi-Fi 7 today.
For more information on mesh networks, including tips on building your own, check out these related posts.
Dong's note: I originally published this piece on April 28, 2018, and updated it with up-to-date information on February 19, 2024.
Hi Dong
Thanks for the informative article. I have a question for you. I currently have a 1Mbps fibre broadband service with 2 x Asus XT8 mesh units and a Huawei Optical Network Terminal (ONT).
I am thinking of upgrading to a 5Mbps service from my telco. Will my current 2 XT8 mesh set up support this? The 5Mbps package also comes with a Nokia Optical Network Router, do I need this connected to the XT8 via ethernet cable or stick with the ONT? Thanks.
I’m a bit confused about your question, Felix, since 1Mbps is simply really slow. But more about ONT in this post and here’s how you pick a mesh system. Good luck!
Hi Dong,
I’ve been searching for some clarification in roaming assistance and band steering in a Smart Connect setup with my AiMesh routers. I’ve read through most of your AiMesh articles which led me to this one. This one helped clarify some things, but I still scratch my head at the way router settings work — or don’t work for that matter.
Pulling from your article:
“In my experience, via testing hundreds of hardware devices, the seamless handoff is almost always hit or miss. It varies depending on your existing router, clients, and other factors.”
— This has been my experience as well, though I haven’t tested hundreds like you.
“Wi-Fi doesn’t follow human logic in terms of distances.”
— I’m experiencing this with more than just distance.
What I’m having trouble processing is why my AiMesh routers (three GT-BE98 Pros, ethernet backhauled) don’t seem to have the power to follow settings or rules I’ve setup. I understand that connection has heavy dependency on the client side in that it chooses what’s best for itself… but, if I tell the router, “hey, kick off anything with RSSI of -75 dBm or lower from 5GHz or 6GHz band.”, shouldn’t the router have the power to do exactly as such… kick it off?
Even when I substitute band steering and use PHY rates, the clients don’t seem to follow rules. I’ve even gone to the extreme and set each node to lowest “Tx Power” setting, set “Roaming Assistance” to kick off below -45 dBm, and set things like “Window Time” and “Dwell Time” to 1 second each. And yet, the two clients I’m testing out (iPhone 15 Pro Max & MacBook Air M3) still cling for several minutes (or forever) to a node that’s two rooms away while also reporting RSSI of ~-75-80 dBm while their speed tests at this signal strength are less than stellar.
I guess what I’m trying to point out is that it feels like the client has more power than the router (which is hard for me to comprehend). The settings also feel more like “guides” rather than hard rules (which would feel a bit disappointing). It feels like I’ve posted rules for my house, but guests are still allowed to do what they want. I’m sure enterprise environments can’t have these types of issues. Is there something deeper I’m missing here?
Thanks for any help.
It’s generally the issue with Apple devices, Arian. They don’t support the mentioned roaming standards. Don’t use Apple devices to test anything except stuff within Apple’s ecosystem.
I’m not as savvy as Arian, I like the analogy: “It feels like I’ve posted rules for my house, but guests are still allowed to do what they want.”
Your answer explains a lot and will save me a lot of time and frustration. Thank you for that 🙂
Henk
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Truly appreciate your reply and all your help, Dong. I wasn’t aware of that info about Apple devices. Follow up question though:
— Regardless of what roaming standard the clients (in this case, Apple devices) follow, shouldn’t the gatekeepers (Asus GT-BE98 Pros) be the ones holding the keys and making all rules? Sure, I can understand the device has its own standard for making a connection, letting go of one, or hopping between nodes, but shouldn’t that be within the bounds of the router?
In other words, I imagine the router is the one who says “Hey ‘client’, assuming your personal standard lets you, you can hop on my network. And once you’re on (or before you’re on), these are my rules: you can be on this band/node/etc. only if you meet “abc”. And if you don’t meet “abc”, I’ll have to switch you to this band/node/etc., or I’ll kick you off — and remember that I did. I will check this every “x” time interval.”
Assuming my MAC addresses don’t change (they don’t), where am I missing the logic here? Are the rules that I’ve assigned to my router more like guidelines than hard rules? Or is there something in the clients “roaming standard” that lets it hop on the network and do (what seems to be) whatever is best for itself regardless of what the key-holder says?
Thanks again for helping me understand.
Don’t make assumptions, Arian. Or do but know that you’re the only one responsible for yours when you act on them.
And you can appreciate the two previous sentences, if you do, because we speak the same language. If we don’t, even if I wrote them in ALL CAPS, none of the right regions in your brain would spark. Communication takes two. And that’s similar to why Wi-Fi and roaming standards need to be supported by all parties for things to work, at all or at their full potential. Got it?
By the way, it’s more likely than not that your Macs connect using a virtual MAC address each time, unless you explicitly turn that “security feature” off.
Doug, appreciate your excellent article re mesh systems. Understand running ethernet would be optimal option, but difficult to do with our house construction so next best option is a bridged or MESH setup.
My current setup involves an ASUS RT AX-88U Pro (main office with two desktop computers, 2 NAS devices) bridged to an older ASUS AX-3000 (connected via Ethernet to AV receiver, TIVO, ROKU and SRT-350Ni device for an outdoor antenna) in a distant room. Typically get @400+Mbps down and @25+Mbps up using Speedtest from desktop at the AX-88U Pro router; roughly same speed via WiFi using speedtest on android phone. WiFi signal is good all around our house of @ 3K sq ft.
Main issue is that sometimes streaming services (Netflix, TIVO, ROKU apps) at the bridged router pauses to catch up!
Questions: Would speed between the bridged routers be better if I used the AX-88U Pro at both locations; would MESH theoretically provide faster speed?
It’s impossible to know, Bob, but for your case, it’s best to use the AX3000 as an AiMesh satellite node instead of a bridge mode. Try that! Also, see if you can use MoCA as backhaul.
Your main issue is likely the 2.4GHz band, which is super slow, is use as the backhaul. In an AiMesh setup, you’ll know which band is being used. Good luck!
Thanks, Dong. I just changed the setup to AiMesh and the WiFi speed has improved a bit in the furthest area near the satellite router (AX-3000), and they’re connecting at 5Ghz (same band they were using when using the bridged setup). The ROKU device is not connected via WiFi rather than ethernet (to the satellite) and the speed has improved from good to excellent per the ROKU setup (unable to tell if that’s due to the change to WiFi or the change to Mesh). Anyway, seems to work well and easy to set up; I may try MoCA as I do have cable at both locations.
Hi Dong
Great website, articles, blog!
Current set up Modem: Netgear CM 600, Orbi RBK 50 with one base and one satellite. Comcast Xfinity 1200 mbps download 200 mbps upload. Comcast is saying modem is old and not taking advantage of service, they recommend CM 3000 (doesn’t exist) and CBR750
Three story 3500 SF house plus basement and detached three car garage. Garage doors and exterior car charger have spotty wifi service but they are a recent addition. House interior coverage is good. No gaming, some streaming and work-related Team and zoom meetings. No wifi enabled house equipment except garage doors and car charger. House previously wired with 5e drops in most rooms so could be used for a wired back haul but might have to go through a switch as hub is on third floor and Comcast service arrives in basement. Wired drops currently not active, just using wi-fi
Been happy w Orbi and considering:
1. Orbi CPK 752 w integral modem and one satellite $399
2. Orbi RBS 750 add satellite to get better coverage outside main house $222, $521 total
3. Maybe just replace Modem w CM 2000 ($250) CM 1200 ($205) but that does not help coverage to garage. Adding a discontinued satellite cost $230 or $435-480 total
4. Linksys MX12600 with two satellites, could wire back haul. $250 plus probably need to add new modem so more like $450-500
Sounds like you would recommend using the wired backhaul option with a newer Linksys 6E or other system and new modem. Any help appreciated.
As mentioned at the beginning of this post Chris, I don’t comment on specific situations. Assuming you have read this post — if not, try again! — this one on Modems and these ones on best Wi-Fi 6e and Wi-Fi 6 mesh system will help. If you need more help, check out each post’s related stories in the box up top. Good luck!
Thanks for setting me straight Dong. Will get the CM2000 to match my Comcast speed. Then will eventually upgrade the mesh to 6 or 6E, maybe the ASUS ZenWiFi Pro ET12 AXE11000 and take advantage of the wired backhaul,
👍
Hi Dong,
setup the CM2000 tonight. It works great, thanks. Did some speed tests and the Orbi RBK 50 was only doing 40-50 mbps download while a wired connection was 700-900 mbps! Huge difference so maybe time to replace the Orbi with the Asus Pro ET12. I read your article on Asus Airmesh setup and just want to confirm my wired backhaul set up will work. I wired the house long ago, before wi-fi was a thing. From the router/base station Asus, will use the 2.5 GB LAN port and take a cable to an unmanaged Netgear Prosafe 8 port Gigabit switch. From the switch take a cable to the satellite Asus and connect using the 2.5GB WAN port. Your article says it is OK to have an unmanaged switch between the units but is it OK if the Netgear Prosafe switch is also used to feed other LAN ports? Or will the two Asus units be confused with all the cross traffic? I have a way to eliminate the switch between the two Asus units. Would use the 2.5 GB port on the base unit to feed the satellite and a 2.0 GB port on the base to feed the switch and LAN ports, but it would limit the placement of the satellite unit. Unfortunately, I can’t take advantage of LAN aggregation and use both 2.0GB ports to feed the switch. Would one set up be preferred? Any help appreciated.
Check out this post on how to set up a mesh, Chris.
Among other things, I’m unaware of 2.0 GB or 2.5 GB ports. Make sure you give your questions the same quality as the answers you expect. Generally, if you pay serious attention, you’ll find your answers here.
What an excellent write up!
I have a question regarding “fronthaul.”
I always considered it the tx/rx communication between the client and the device, with backhaul being the interface between the device and the router/modem. I never considered “broadcasters” as fronthaul as it sounds uni-directional.
In a mesh system, the satellite unit is also a client, John.
I get it, thanks. I guess what I’m trying to wrap my head around is, does the communication, say between my phone and that satellite constitute the front-haul, and the comms between that satellite and the router the backhaul? Again, thanks for clearing it up for this old geezer!
This article is amazing, but I have questions about my new home. I hope you can help me.
I have 600 Mbps internet connection. I can’t disregard my IPS gateway. I also have 3 asus routers: Rog Rapture GT-AX6000 as main router and 2 RT-AX86U as nodes. What would be the best option?
1- Keep the IPS modem as main and to use GT AX6000 as AP mantaining same SSID. Then create mesh from do GT AX6000? Is it possible?
2- Use the IPS gateway as a modem and start the mesh network from the GT AX6000 as main router with a new SSID disregarding the SSID of the IPS gateway?
Do you have another suggestion? What do you think for a better network configuration? Everything will be connected by network cables.
Number two is the best option, Vlad. More in this post which gives you all possible options.
Hi Dong,
Just binged a bunch of your internet set up articles. Excellent work. I took much of the advice and threaded cat8 cables where I could through the walls and now have a Deco X60 system with a main unit and 2 satellite nodes (the more distant one is wired backhauled, the closer isn’t yet, in a star config). But while the main unit gives me 600 Mbps, and the wireless backhauled node has 150Mbps, the wired one is only 90!
I don’t know where to start to pick this issue apart…
Current thoughts are to pull it closer and wire it directly with a different cable to test if distance or cable is the issue (but you state that for wired, distance is irrelevant). Any better ideas?
It looks like the wired backhaul is connecting at 100Mbps. So maybe it’s the cable or you get a bad unit.
thanks. that was quick. I will add the extra step of swapping my satellite units to the troubleshooting to check the bad unit possibility
I checked and the issue was the wall cable. Thanks. I tested it and pin 8 was failing. Actually, it was the wall connector. I purchased a replacement and wired it in and got pin 8 to light up. My speeds immediately jumped up to ~600 Mbps.
I did not wire in the Ground. Not sure if that is something I should/need to do. It didn’t seem to effect anything though
As I suspected. Glad you got it fixed! Good job! More on wiring in this post.
Hi great articles.
I will have a 500mb fttp system come the end of this week. I currently have 3 linksys velop devices. The primary router is one of the velops. My isp (EE) has provided a wireless digital voice unit which I will plug into my Dect siemens phone unit. It communicates wirelessyl to the router provided by ee. The provided router emulates
a Dect phone line.
Questions
I assume that I cannot use the isp’s provided router as a separate node in which case the only function of the ee router appears to be to support the siemens Dect unit which I need to work.
Can I connect the ee router to the master velop router which I assume that I can I can connect to the ONT. The ee router is needed to provide Dect functionality (there is code in it to perform Dect simulation) without it my landlines won’t work
Alternatively can you think of any other options (eg I could buy EEs version of the linksys velop system. But I don’t want to spend 200 ukp if my velop system can do the job.
Rgds richard williams
It seems you’ll need to use the Velop on top of the router provided by your Internet provider, Richard. More in this post.
Hi, thanks for this helpful article. A quick question: How reliable are the mesh systems where one relies on the system to keep switching users between bands? Is one better off creating three separate SSIDs for the three separate bands and then manually connecting to one or another depending on how good the connection is in a particular part of the house?
Thanks again.
Generally it’s better to use a separate SSID for each band, Peter, than using Smart Connect. That’s the case with all broadcasters, mesh or not. More here.
Thanks!
thank you for such a great post Dong. I may have the simplest question. I have a three-piece mesh network that I can’t backhaul wired. everything is set up wireless. My stereo/receivers and televisions are located right next to the two wireless mesh nodes. Currently I have them set up wireless to the wireless nodes but I could easily run cat cable to the nodes. I’m a novice but it sounds like that makes sense to do? So basically my television and receiver would connect to a node wired and the node would backhaul to the main mesh modem wireless.
Thanks for your insight,
David
Whenever possible wiring is always better, David. In your case it saves the Wi-Fi bandwidth of the node.
Hi Dong,
I think my RT-AX86U is reaching it’s limit, about 85+ connections, which is why i’m seeing dropoffs.
Thinking of adding another to create a mesh, would this alleviate the load by splitting the load? I would probably put them in a wired setup next to eachother, although that might cause other problems.
Or should i just go for a better router that supports 100+ connections. I have no problem with coverage overall, i just have a lot of smart devices.
Thank you,
Check out this post, you should go the additional AP route.
Thanks for this great article which convinced me to go to the extra effort of hardwiring my 2nd Synology RT6600ax mesh point which was previously wireless. I’ve run ethernet cable from the 2nd mesh point to the location of the 1st mesh point, which is already hard-wired to the primary. However, what’s best – directly connect the 2nd to the 1st (i.e. daisy chain them), or add a switch between the primary and the 1st and also connect the 2nd to that switch, so that both mesh points connect directly to the primary via the switch?
Thanks!
It makes no difference, either way, Neil.
I may come late, but this proves your excellent articles is still relevant years after its initial posting.
Situation is a large (I mean, large) open office space where I would distribute 3 or 4 wifi broadcasters, one the primary router. Planning on wired backhaul.
The ISP infrastructure sits in a cubicle outside of the office space, and is where all cabling comes together. This is the place where a POE switch will be installed, also connecting to wired devices like printers etc.
Does this mean I will need to run 2 (two) ethernet cables from the cubicle to the primary router broadcaster?
1. One from ISP infra to primary router
2. One from primary router to POE switch
That’s correct, Roel. The router must be the first device after the Internet source. Check out the related posts in the box at the beginning of the post for more. Good luck with the project!
Hi Dong:
Does it matter if your main router shows the satellite routers as clients, rather than AI Mesh nodes. They’re hard wired with Cat8 cables on different floors of my house.
I upgraded a motherboard and had to reset my Asus AX89X router. It used to show the main router and 2 nodes with double green connection lines. Now they show up as clients.
If you reset the router, you have to reset and set up the satellites again, Edgar. Satellites, when working properly, are also shown as clients by the way.
Hi Dong,
I have a quick question, about the interaction between a modem and a mesh system.
Firstly, for various reasons I have decide to opt for a mesh system and am planning on purchasing one from your recommended page.
Currently, I have an awful generic modem/router from my ISP, which to my understanding, I’ll have to plug my main mesh router into.
My question is, if I am using the mesh system, does the quality of the modem that it is plugged into significantly matter? ie If I get one of the best mesh systems available, would I be severely limiting its performance using my generic modem. If so I’ll obviously need to purchase a new Modem as well.
Thank you for your time!
Hi Jayden,
1. On modems, check out this post.
2. For your case, this one will help.
The gist is that you need to know if you actually use/need a modem and proceeded accordingly. Make sure you pay attention.
I have a similar setup to yours. All i can say is the obvious. Your mesh is downstream from your modem. If the modem is slow or dropping packets there isn’t anything your network can do to make it better. The best you can hope for is to not make it any worse.
Hey Dong,
I’m a little confused trying to figure out the best configuration for my scenario, any input would be greatly appreciated…
Brief rundown… I recently got rid of spectrum and am using T-Mobile 5G Home Internet, which is new to me because traditionally I’ve always just had the main connection point be a coax port in the wall… however with T-Mobile 5G home internet, the modem/router can be placed anywhere and the ideal location is wherever the strongest signal can be had… This is where it gets wonky for me… I live in an apartment and am on the 1st floor, so for my situation I happened to have found the best placement for my modem/router (Sagemcom model) is in my garage (lol)…
This is where my uncertainty comes in… With the best placement being in my garage, I can connect via wifi on my PC/phone in the nearest room to the garage and get 350mbps download 25mbps upload peak, sometimes more sometimes less… If I place the main modem/router in that room instead of the garage, I get 200-250mbps download 15-20mbps upload at best, often times it will be 150mbps at most…
So what I did was order the Asus zenwifi xt8 mesh 2 pack as well as a moca 2.5 two-pack from Asus (the ethernet ports on the moca are 2.5gbps if it matters)
To my knowledge the T-Mobile 5G Home Internet modem/router from Sagemcom cannot be put in bridged mode, (however I think it may be possible to disable the wifi with some powershell stuff)
Oh by the way, the reason I ordered moca adapters is because I’m having trouble getting decent wifi speeds at the other end of the apartment – and unfortunately the apartment is not wired with ethernet, but does have coax already run. (Unfortunately there’s no coax ports in the garage though)
What I’m trying to determine is if it would be best to setup the zen wifi xt8 main node as an access point/extender and have it wirelessly connect to the T-Mobile router in the garage since that’s where the best signal/speeds would be had… or my concern is that setting it up to connect to the main router wirelessly would impact performance to a higher degree than the 100-200mbps speed loss by just keeping the T-Mobile router in the house and connecting the XT8 mesh to the main router with an ethernet cable… I’m also wondering if with all the above specs/details in mind- whether or not the performance from just using the XT8 wireless backhaul to the satellite on the other end of the apartment might be better than daisy chaining it with moca?
Hopefully I did an okay-job at explaining that.
Thanks in advance for any input, it’s greatly appreciated !
This post will help with your situation, David. Think of your 5G box as the gateway that you can’t replace or put in the bridge mode, and you can figure out what direction you want to go from there.
Hey Dong,
Quick question for ASUS routers and wired backhaul.
I have the ROG AX-6000 and would like to backhaul it to another ASUS unit. Due to wiring difficulties/access, I may end up having to connect through a switch.
I really wanted to put in another AX-6000, as you previously suggested. However, if am unable to directly wire them together, will a switch kill the 2.5G port connection advantage. If so, just use a lesser client instead of the ROG AX-6000?
That depends on the switch, Kevin. If you use a Multi-Gig switch, then it’s the same. More in this post.
“Wi-Fi doesn’t follow human logic in terms of distances.” Thanks, as I see this in my own network with my 80+ connections and keep wondering if I should try and ‘improve’ things or just leave it alone. I’ll just leave it alone. I’ve got an ASUS RT-AX58U, and use a Python script that number crunches the system log to see which devices are having issues (connecting, disconnecting), and with time, everyone is pretty settled. When a device gets ‘noisy’, a simple reboot or moving it a bit usually settles it down. In another post, you mention that adding a wireless mesh node to a wired mesh one only slows the wireless. Thanks, I was wondering about that.
AiMesh SmartConnect with three ZenWiFi AX Minis backhauled by MOCA (iperf3 at 800-900 mbps) covers 3000 sq ft, three floors, in a suburban environment.
Sure, Bruce. Glad you figured things out!
Thanks Dong for your valuable insight. My ISP requires me to use their Wifi Router/ Gateway as I also subscribe my TV service from them. However, with the only one Wifi Router, I am getting many dead spots at my home. Hence I am looking to upgrade to a Mesh set up (wired backhaul). However, my ISP informed me that I can’t turn their router/gateway to bridge mode as the TV cable boxes won’t work. If I don’t want to run a double NAT set up, and use a Eero set up, I will need to turn them all into AP mode. With the Eeros in AP mode, while using the ISP main gateway (with its WIFI turned off), will I lose the Eero’s seamless handoff capabilities? Thanks for your advise!
If you the eero, you lose a lot, Calvin — it’s the worst in performance and especially online privacy. With that in mind, you can use it in the AP mode as a mesh system. All system that supports AP mode as a mesh — so far, only the Google Wifi doesn’t — will not lose seamless handoff. More in this post.
Thanks Dong for your advice. This set up is for my parents place who isn’t very tech savvy and Im not there all the time. Hence I’m trying to find something that just works and is reliable and apps where I can delegate admins. From my impression both Nest and Eero seems to excel in this from a set up and forget perspective but Nest can’t go into AP mode, so need to try out how double NAT would affect the network in real life. Do you have other suggestions in terms of brand and mesh set ups (that can work in AP and yet still have handoff function) that would fill this criteria? Thanks
Any of these or these, Calvin. But it’s your call.
Hello Dong,
Thanks for sharing so much insight. I came across your blog as I’m having issues with my current mesh system. I have a tri-band Wifi 5 Velop mesh (3 units) with a wired backhaul via MoCA (can’t run ethernet cables as it’s a rental) and my ISP provides 1Gbps service. However no matter what I do, I get unreliable wifi speeds between 40 and 110 Mbps but perfect 900-1000 Mbps on wired connections. The ping seems off too, when browsing there’s often a 2-3 seconds delay before the page starts loading (only on wifi not on wired or on 5G for the phone). I have a fair number of smart devices so the 2.4GHz is likely saturated but even when I make sure to be on 5GHz it’s still poor.
I’m considering switching the system to TP-Link XE75 but I’d like to make sure moving to Wifi 6E would actually address my issues. Your insight would be greatly appreciated.
Nobody knows, but you, Arthur. It’s likely your “smart” devices. Check out this post and change things up accordingly. Make sure you spend some time and read carefully. Wi-Fi is about nuance.
Hello! My current home network is using an MB8611 Modem, RT-AX58U AX3000 Dual Band Router and the ZenWiFi AX AX6600 Tri-band Mesh WiFi system (two nodes). Paying for 1 Gig speeds. Seeing 770 Mbps download and 37 Mbps upload. Should I upgrade the router from dual-band to tri-band? Thanks!
Your setup doesn’t seem right, Christopher. So,
1. Make sure you read this post.
2. Check out this one on how to set up AiMesh.
3. Extra: This post talks about speed testing.
It’s impossible to give you a quick answer since there are so many variables. You need to figure stuff out yourself. Give it some time and really read — don’t skip around — the posts, and you’ll figure it out.
Interesting article. I’m just trying to understand whether the hype is purely marketing or if there is an advantage to “MESH.” It seems like a traditional network with wired backhaul access points accomplishes the same thing. I understand “MESH” when it comes to protocols like zwave where each device is both a receiver and a transmitter. You extend your range by adding new devices. I needed to install zwave wall switches in a room that was out of range from the next closest device, so I swapped out an outlet in the hallway, getting me coverage. Ideally, there would be multiple paths to my bedroom, but sometimes we have what we have. The way you describe mesh though, it just sounds like traditional wired APs or the agreed-on bad performance from a wireless extender. But nice article.
Give the post a serious read, Chip. From your comment, I don’t think you actually read it thoroughly. And if you didn’t, you missed a lot of not all of it. 🙂
Thanks Dong. Your posts specifically on MESH networking have been a huge help and I’m happy to say I have my home configured based on many of the details you shared. In the end, It was a fun project to build out. After wiring my home with CAT6a, I ended up with an all ASUS setup comprised of the AXE16000 as the main router setup in mesh with the WIFI-ET8 nodes as well as a segmented network where my AXE16000 connects to an AX55 which is then in mesh with an AX3000. The only reasons for this layout were 1. The inability to centrally locate my main router and 2. The inability to use the Guest network of my main router as an IoT network. I ran into numerous issues where 2.4GHz devices simply refused to connect to the Guest(1) network. So in the end I was able to create two separate mesh setups, both with wired backhaul, the main one being 2.5 and the second being 1Gb. So far everything has worked flawlessly and I can say that your insight helped me through several areas in refinement. Appreciate all your knowledge and for sharing it with us all. Be Blessed.
Excellent! Thanks for sharing, Bryan. And you’re welcome! 🙂
Hi Dong,
First of all, I would like to tell you that I have very much enjoyed this particular post on Mesh WiFi.
I am seeking for advice and an expert eye on how to get the most of my Asus AiMesh setup, as I fear from the current test results that I have conducted that it is not yet optimal and could be improved. Let me describe my current topology and configuration.
I have 2 ZenWiFi Pro XT12, one configured as AiMesh Router mode, and the second one as an AiMesh node. They are physically distant by about 10 meters, with half walls in between. I am on a 1Gbps Internet (FTTH) service from my ISP. I have setup Tri-band Smart Connect. The 2.4 GHz band is setup as 20/40MHz. The 5 GHz-1 band is setup as 80MHz. The 5 GHz-2 band (backhaul) is setup as 160MHz, to be used as backhaul and fronthaul connection. I confirm that I am having no particular RADAR interference on that band, therefore fully benefiting from the 160MHz, for those Wi-Fi 6 AX devices connected to it (these devices are showing link speed RX / TX of 2402/2402 Mbps when checking the network adapters). When I conduct an Internet “speed test” on an AX device connected to the AiMesh node 160MHz band, I am getting 540Mbps download and 263Mbps upload. The first thing is I don’t understand why the upload is not at the same level as the download? When I run the same Internet “speed test” on a device connected to the AiMesh Router, I am getting 800 to 900Mbps both for download and upload. Are these poorer performance results on the node somewhat expected, or could I get better performance by changing my current WiFi configuration? Note that I need to stick to a wireless backhaul and cannot consider a wired backhaul due to my home configuration.
Thanks in advance for any feedback and suggestions!
JC
Stop using Smart Connect, and you’ll get different results for each band, Jean. Your current result numbers are inconclusive. But if you can live with them, then things are fine.
Noted, thanks for your feedback and recommendations.
Hi Dong,
Great article and I’ve now set up mesh (both wired and wireless) from reading it.. thanks.
2 questions
1. I can(and should as there’s a dead spot) add a second wired back haul.. there’s cable between my home office back to modem..but with my Deco X60 there’s only 2 ports. 1 is used from modem the other to my first wired unit. I’m a bit of a novice here, so what do I need to get to presumably place between main unit and the 2 wired units to get proper wired back haul?
2. My sons bedroom although it has good signal from one wired nodes has a wireless node in order to daisy chain to another node at bottom of garden (only way I can do this).
So on his gaming pc.. is it better just to use the pc WiFi and make sure connects to wired node, or use a wired connection to the wireless node?… suppose I’m asking if the node wireless connection is better than a pc one?
Thanks so much
Hi Jeremy,
1. You need a switch there — a Gigabit switch is fine — unless you can use the 2nd port of the 2nd Deco unit.
2. More about gaming and Wi-Fi in this post.
Thanks for such a quick reply…
1. I’ll go research gigabyte switch(was the word switch a link? Doesn’t seem to work)
2. so it seems no real difference between WiFi to primary node or wired to wireless one… suppose just try both and see which ping us quicker!
You can get any of these, Jeremy. Pick one with the number of ports that meets your need — more on switches here. With wired backhauling, generally, the performance is the same between the primary router and a satellite. Wireless backhauling is far inferior on all counts. More about how to best use multiple broadcasters in this post.
Links are generally underlined and have different colors. 🙂
Hello Dong! I would like to double-check one thing. I am currently preparing CAT cables for all rooms, but regardless of the setup I pick (wired mesh, wireless mesh, or just plain APs connecting to the switch), one thing after reading lots of articles on this site is puzzling me. For example, if I connect a system like ET12, XT8 to my ISP router (or to the switch connected to the ISP router), can I have CAT cables for the other in-house devices like a desktop computer connected in front of the connection point where ISP router LAN connects to ET12 WAN? I don’t plan to connect my main desktop computer over the mesh system, but directly via a cable to the ISP router or a switch connection to it. Thanks!
Yes, you can but you’ll have a double NAT — more in this post. It’s not about a matter of “can” or “cannot” but about how THAT works and if it’ll work for your need.
I hooked up my 3 deco m4 mesh and I have one outstanding issue. I cannot connect to my security dvr which is 192.68.1.x. /85 using the mesh. Any ideas.
Interestingly I am using a static IP for the router and I can connect to the DVR from outside my home mesh network.
You have a double NAT. Check out this post: https://dongknows.com/double-nat-vs-single-nat/
Hi Dong,
If I completely ignore the ease of management, is there an actual technical difference between (a) running a main router + secondary APs all set to the same SSIDs/keys and (b) running an AiMesh? (Asus, specifically).
Again, other than the ease of management, is there a benefit in choosing (b) over (a)? If there is, why?
Some of the reason I ask is – I plan on setting up 3 Asus devices (RT-AX86U) in my house across 3 floors, and using AiMesh would force all 3 floors to run on the same channels, potentially causing interferences between each two adjacent floors. Whereas if I set them as non-aiMesh I can choose to run on different channels and avoid interference (but still keep same SSIDs/keys). Would I be losing anything by choosing non-aiMesh aside from ease?
Thanks, could not find a clear answer anywhere online that speaks to the technical difference if any.
Itay
It depends, Itay since we can’t take stuff in absolute terms. Without the “mesh” notion, you’ll have to worry about signal hand-off, interference, and other things. But most enterprise-grade network consists of multiple APs on top of a router. It’s a matter of what APs you use. An example is in this post. So the answer is it depends. 🙂
Appreciate your response, however I’m not sure I understand why it ‘depends’.
I understand that it can vary whether or not I get better performance in one option over the other, but in terms of what it actually does when you enable mesh, there should be a pretty clear answer on what the technical difference is.
From a technical standpoint (if I literally looked at the code), does setting “AiMesh” do anything more than just send the configuration to the other APs and sets them to the same SSID and keys automatically or does it apply any more logic and exchanges data between the APs and the Router that I would otherwise not have?
In terms of ‘seamless handoff’, even if I don’t use AiMesh I could still set a signal threshold for each AP to kick the client which to my understanding is the same thing AiMesh does.
To my best understanding, there is no technical difference between the two options except one configures everything automatically from one management console (but also enforces some constraints, such as running all APs on the same channel) while the other you need to configure manually (without constraints), but the end result would be the same.
Any reason to think that’s wrong? There’s a lot of handwaving around Mesh with no explanation anywhere on the technical aspect and if there’s actually a technical difference.
Thank you, appreciate the input and discussion!
Itay
It’s hard when you can only see black or white, Itay.
Let me repeat: it depends.
Specifically, if you use certain types of access points with a controller, you can have an enterprise-class mesh system that’s better than the notion of “mesh” that you know. I use mostly these in my daytime work. Examples: TP-Link Omada APs, Ubiquiti UniFi APs, or Netgear Insight Managed APs. There are also other hardware options that you’ve never heard of. It’s all in the firmware. Most home “canned” mesh systems use dumbed-down firmware to make things easy for home users, they are not the end-all-be-all of “mesh” but they sure are better than when you use a bunch of mixed APs willy-nilly.
Take it or leave it. I’m not interested in validating or invalidating what others already (want to) believe. 🙂
Thank you for the informative site! I was wondering if you could weigh in on my situation when you have a moment. We live in a 2400 single story L shaped house. We currently have a tmobile modem/router at the corner of the L, with poor service at one of the ends of the L (master BR.) Our download speeds are usually from 50-150mbps. I would like to improve service throughout the house, and also bring service to a barn about 500ft away. I don’t need to increase our max speed though as we just use wifi for email, browsing and occasional movie watching.
For the home I was thinking to use a wifi6 mesh router system such as the Eero 6, with a router and two access points, router at the current T mobile modem/router. For the barn I was looking at the EZ bridge LT+ device to bring signal to the barn, and then use another eero router at the barn to distribute the signal.
Does this setup seem like a good idea? Any suggestions? I wasn’t thinking to wire the access points in the house but am not sure how much performance loss we would get.
I wouldn’t recommend the eero, Robie — more here. Considering your modest broadband, you have a lot of options — get one on this list of Wi-Fi 6 mesh, but chances are Wi-Fi 5 is enough for your need, in that case, get one of these. As for the barn, get an outdoor PoE access point for it, such as the one mentioned in this post.
Hey Dong, Great article, and I must say you are my one-stop source of wifi home networking knowledge source. I understood that mesh is just an alternative and not ideal for a single broadcaster. However, a 2-story house about 4500 sqft with 5-6 bedrooms, and several drywall obstructing a clear line of sight broadcasting. So when I have an opportunity to build a house from scratch, and can request the builder strategic ethernet ports in all rooms (Bed, Study, office space, Living and Entertainment rooms, etc.), then It is advisable to have a central Primary Hub router and distributing to all such 15 to 20 ports using an unmanaged switch. (I assume this is your recommendation as well)
However for all my KASA TP-Link Smart switches (about 90 of those), wifi streaming Devices (5-6 of those) Google mini (15 of those), Work and personal computers which can either dock or go wireless frequently) 6 of those.
How would you suggest designing a Mesh and wired routing design topology?
Should I just have three GT-AXE11000 or Six satellites of TP-Link AX35300 for best performance if my spending budget is around $1500?
I have an ATT Gigabit Up & Down Modem and Router Combo (Model BGW320).
Please suggest. Thank you so much.
Check out this post on getting your home wired, Babux. It’ll give you details on what you should do. After that, check out this one on the best hardware Multi-Gig hardware (for now.) That’s what I personally use, by the way.
Hi Dong, is it possible to have an ethernet backhauled mesh network without a router?
I was thinking something like this – https://imgur.com/a/6qeh4g
No, Naga. More about routers in this post and about mesh in this post. But what you’re envisioning is not possible — you need a router, like a XE75 unit working as one, in front of the switch.
Thanks for the info.
I have a wired network that I added a mesh wifi system to, so one receiver is plugged into the network.
I can comunicate from the wireless devices to other wireless devices and from wireless devices to wired devices, I can comunicate from wired devices to wired devices.
What I can’t do is comunicate from wired devices to wireless devices.
I understand that I need to tell my wired network that the wireless devices exist but I don’t know how.
My printer is on the WiFi, and my PC is wired and I can’t see the printer to print.
This can be many things, Mike. But chances are you have chosen to use your Wi-Fi (or your wired network — less likely) as the “Guest Network” or isolate it somehow. More in this post. (Note: this is a specific and potentially complicated matter, you might want to hire a professional, or put aside some time to really understand it. If you want a quick answer, there’s none.)
Excellent write-up and endlessly informative. I work for a ‘small’ family plant nursery and we are wanting to implement a mesh network for employee use to cover our 7 acres of grounds. It is flat, and mostly unencumbered except for a number of greenhouses but we are an outdoor facility and having a hard time trying to find a good option to suit our situation. The location of our main offic and retail point of sale is very much to one-end of the property and so our main hub will be favoring one quarter of the grounds heavily thus suggesting daisychaining is in our future. We are relegated to wireless backhauling due to the layout of the property and inability to extend more wiring.
Given this and the vastness of the property, I was just curious if you might have any tips or system suggestions for us?
Thank you so much
You should think about using (outdoor) PoE access points, Evan, that’s the most feasible and also the best — it’s easy to run cables outdoor. 7 acres are a lot of space to cover.
Our dilemma with running cables is a lack of available ground to trench and a strict policy against exposed overhead lines between buildings. If running underground conduit is the only option I guess we will have to assess a means to do so. Our current arrangement only really was hoping to provide enough signal to pair a few security cameras at the corners of the property and offer infrequent access to our inventory system by tablet wifi access.
Thank you for your speedy response by the way
Thanks for this article. I must say I found it very informative and it has helped me improve my Ai mesh setup.
Switching the toplogy from daisy changing and placing the routers closer has made a world of difference
Sure, Mo. 🙂
Hi Dong,
Thanks for the info!
My current setup is as follows:
Asus RT-AC68U: Main Router (in basement)
Translite MC84-W: 2nd floor of main home Access point (connected via MOCA)
EAP615-Wall: Access point in detached outdoor studio (connected via ethernet)
I have everything on the same SSID and have specified the channels on each to avoid interference.
How much of a ‘seamless handoff’ benefit could I expect if I consolidate the router / AP in the main home to Ai-mesh instead? I could buy a new Asus router to replace my current main router and move my existing unit upstairs to replace the Translite MC84-W.
It could be a lot or nothing at all, Jonathan, depending on your devices, and what you’re experiencing right now, as mentioned in the section about the hand-off. But going with AiMesh will make managing your network much easier. Also, run a 2nd cable in the place of MoCA.
Hello Dong,
For my house I need to use daisy-chain wireless mesh of 3 or 4 units, ideally achieving 1Gbps broadband speed throughout.
If I use an XT12 as the main router, and another XT12 as a node, I get Max Rate of 4804 Mbps on all 5 GHz BSSIDs at 160 MHz.
If I then add my GT-AX11000 as a node – that needs to connect to the ‘node’ XT12 in daisy chain (ie XT12>XT12>AX11000), as otherwise it can’t reach the main router – I get a drop to 2402 Mbps at 80 MHz at 3 out of 6 BSSIDs.
Is this drop from 4804 to 2402 Mbps what I need to expect? And swapping my GT-AX11000 node for another XT12 (to achieve XT12>XT12>XT12) would not change anything due to how tri-band routers work?
Many thanks.
You will NOT get 1Gbps via wireless, Alex. Don’t try! Get the place wired. This post talks about 1Gbps broadband and related stuff.
Hello Dong, I’ve got a question about the topology of nodes. I read this article and the reader questions and dongknows.com/mesh-wi-fi-system-explained/#2-The-topology. (And a few others as well) I’m not sure how to combine the info given. I’v got a GT-AX11000 and 2 RT-AX92U’s. They are in a mixed wired/wireless set-up. I understand when you connect the 92’s to the 11000, all the benefits of the big boy are available through the network. Since you can prioritise to what piece of hardware the node connects I have in my specific situation the choice that the wireless 92 node connects to:
The 11000 with ‘weak’ signal quality;
The 92 which is connected via ethernet to the 11000 with ‘good’ signal quality.
What’s the better option? Are there differences at all to which it connects if the one 92 is wired to the 11000?
Hope to hear from you, best regards Henk.
Check outu this post, Henk. https://dongknows.com/asus-aimesh-overview/
Hi Dong, thanks for pointing me to that article. I read that as well before posting the question. I think I’m not knowledgeable enough to apply what I’m reading to my situation. I understand the shortcomings of mixing dual- and tri-band hardware. I also get that in a full wireless set-up you should not daisy chain the nodes. What I do not get is the ‘in between situation’. I have a mixed wired/wireless set-up. I can link the second node wirelessly to the main router with ‘poor’ signal quality. Or I can link de second node to the first node which is wired to the main router with ‘good’ signal quality. My gift-feeling tells me that in this case the latter should be better (since the connection between main and first is wired), but I’m not sure? And re there other things to consider?
Best regards, Henk
Wi-Fi doesn’t work the way general humans perceive things they can see — it’s invisible and I mentioned that briefly in this part which you probably didn’t read. The system will decide which source the satellite should connect to in real-time for the best result — it’s called “a system” for a reason. I’d be more concerned about how the 2nd 5GHz band is used in your situation. Generally, it’s not a good idea to look for specific answers all the time — put two and two together! For example, while it’s fair to ask which pair of gloves keeps you warmer, it’d be a bit too much if you followed up with “What if I have just one glove?” or “Can I mix them up?”. That’s a long way to say that your question was irrelevant — there’s no good answer to it.
Hi Dong,
I appreciate your experience and expertise. I have a unique situation that I’m hoping you can advise me on. My place has three homes on the property. The main house (800 sqr ft) + 1st ADU cabin (400 sqr ft) located 70 feet from the main house + 2nd ADU cabin (also 400 sqr ft) located about 70 feet from the 1st ADU cabin and 140 feet from the main house. I currently have a rented xfinity gateway with 300mbps and an outside repeater to send the signal to the ADU cabins. This works but not well. The cabins only get about 40-50 mbps and they are constantly loosing connection and or having buffering issues when streaming movies etc. So I want to go with a mesh system if possible. I want to stop paying equipment rental fees so I ordered a new Netgear Nighthawk CM1100 DOCSIS 3.1 Cable Modem and I’m wondering if you can suggest which mesh system might work best with my situation.
You’re on the right post. The entire post is my suggestion. Make sure you read it, Jim! Starting with the intro. Good call on getting your own modem!
Dong,
Do you have experience in wifi point to point compatibility between different suppliers …( i.e. Deliberant APC 5M-12 and a Ubiquiti Loco 5M).. I had a multipoint setup with an old deliberant system and one transmitter has failed. I was hoping to just add a Ubiquiti into the mix (deliberant has merged with ligoWave and sales rep wasn’t sure of compatibility, LigoWave is 3x the price of a Ubiquiti so I thought maybe the Ubiquiti would be an option)… Is there any way to look at compatibility aside from frequency? (eg. protocols, others) what else should I be looking for/at?
I’m not sure what you meant by “compatibility” in this case. If you’re talking in terms of Wi-Fi connectivity, then that’s a matter of standard. All devices from all vendors are supposed to (and will) work with each other. If you meant hardware management, then the answer is likely no.
Thanks for the info.. compatibility was in terms of wifi connectivity.
Then it’s going to work, Brent. At least on the fronthaul.
Hey! Thank you very much for this post. I decided to acquire a Mesh networking system, the D-Link COVR. The network works really well but the setup is way too simplified and it seems not to work with switches: when I connect their Internet port to a switch, they seem to get very confused and not cooperate well to create the mesh network. Right now I am about to test that again to see if that is really the case. I wish I had found your post before making a purchase! Haha. Thanks again.
Sure, Guilherme. D-Link has been going downhill in my opinion. It’s sad since it used to be one of my fav networking brands. You should go with AiMesh instead.
Hi Dong
Many thanks for these extremely informative articles.
I would like to be able to roam my devices as seamlessly as possible in a largish house. I would prefer to run two Unifi U6-Pro “Access Point WiFi 6 Pro” APs off a router, and until the UDR becomes available, an ASUS router is attractive.
You do recommend router+APs as a better option than two routers with one in AP mode.
Could this be a set and “interfere minimally” arrangement, having the controller software run off a Synology 920+ using Docker?
Or would it be best to wait until Ubiquiti release a fitting router to better facilitate roaming through their APs?
PS I have wired backhaul throughout.
You’d need to use the UDM as your main router with the said UnFi access points, Kevin, for now. Keep in mind, though, that there’s no “real” seamless roaming as I mentioned here. Or just go with a dual-band Asus AiMesh setup.
Thanks.
I’m not in any particular hurry and just want Wifi 6 roaming with peace of mind for some years. Interested in Unifi, Synology mesh, or AI mesh.
Should I wait for the UDR, or RT6600ax; are they more reliable than AI mesh?
Your guess is as good as mine on this front, Kevin — the hardware is not (fully) available yet. My take is they are the same via wired backhaul. So it’s your call. 🙂
Great writing!
What would you recommend for a wired appartment where I plan on using the asus mini mesh system around the appartment plugged inn via ethernet, connected to a technical cabinet where my modem ( different provider) stands. Is it possible to find an Asus router that would work with the minis? or do I have to use the one mini as a router connected to a switch, and then buy another mini ( I need 3 to cover my appartment well.. solid concrete walls) and plugging the 3 in to the wall ( going to a terminated connection in the technical cabinet connected to the switch) ?
Horrible explaination, but to sum up. Can you combine an asus router with the asus mini mesh system? or could you possibly combine one of the XT8 ( as a router, since it has enough LAN ports) with the minis ( working as nodes?) Or do I have to use a switch and buy another mini making it a total of 4units?
If I had 900$ to spend on a mesh system I would just buy 4 of the XT8, but that’s not sensible.
Check out this post, Elizabeth. https://dongknows.com/best-aimesh-routers-and-combos/
Dong, Outstanding write-ups on all your topics. Love reading them; extremely informative. I looked around and I’m not sure I found an answer to this:
Q: Not sure how effective clients that comply with the IEEE 802.11r, 802.11v, or 802.11k standards handle “hand-offs”. If handled well, does that mean that any Network that uses APs with the same SSID as the main router should “act” like a mesh (even more so Netgear EX8000 and EX7500) so long as the client complies with these standards? What part does the AP node or router play in this?
I assume the primary disadvantage is the number of used channels and possible interference within the wireless network vs that in a Mesh.
That’s the idea, Derec, but in reality, there’s more nuance to this — among other things, these standards are not compatible with one another and not all devices support all of them — as I mentioned in the hand off section of this post.
Hi, I just recently updated to At&T 2 gig internet speed. I have purchased the Orbi AX6000 852. The router has a 2.5 gig ethernet port and 4 gigabit ports. The Satellite has only 4 gigabit ports. My question is, in order to get as much speed as possible over a gig to the Satellite is should I keep the mesh wireless, or would it be better to do a wired backhaul to the Satellite? I am thinking if I wire it, My Satellite will cap at a gig of speed while the main router is able to do the full 2 gigs. I appreciate any feedback for the best setup.
You should get your home wried and use one of these instead of the Orbi, Shawn.
Hi Dong,
I’m looking into overhauling my network system in my house.
I currently have a TP-Link router to serve the main house and a wired AP to serve the external garage and parts of the outside security system.
The problem I have is that when I get home my Phone locks onto the Garage AP and doesn’t let go even if I’m standing next to the home router, which is unfortunately expected in this setup.
Based upon what I see above, for ASUS routers with AiMesh, when setting up a mixed 2 and 3 band router/AP respectively, I assume the AiMesh router will still manage the AP (vs a node) and have seamless handoffs. Is this correct? (Concern that in access point mode, as in my garage situation, there won’t be a seamless handoff.). I wasn’t sure if the Wifi 6, when thrown into this mix, caused issues in hand off. Or is it best I get matching multi band router and node system?
Also as a side question, Does ASUS routers provide a means to set the threshold point for hand off, or does it strictly work on whichever is the stronger signal? My observation is that TP-link OneMesh routers seems to have a signal strength hand-off point. If the router and node are too close together one may never reach a minimum signal strength threshold to hand off.
Check out this post, Derec. It’ll answer all of those questions and more.
This is such a great source of information and I appreciate all the time you put into maintaining the information. I see where ASUS has released their new ZenWiFi AX XT9 and was wondering if that is on the roadmap for review anytime soon? I have an old single router to replace in my home and like the XT8 system, but will wait for the XT9 system if its significantly better.
The only difference it seems is the XT9 supports 160MHz on the 5GHz-1 band and that’s not significant, Steve. More on 160MHz in this post.
Hi Dong,
Thanks for the very informative articles. Just a quick question regarding my current setup.
I previously had a 3 pack ASUS Zenwifi CD6 mesh system, but found the router in this setup to be underpowered with a single 775Mhz processor with 128MB RAM and causing buffering with 4K streaming etc. I have replaced the Zenwifi CD6 router with a Asus AX-86U, and put the old Zenwifi CD6 router into AIMesh node mode to use as an additional node, all three CD6 nodes are hardwired back to the AX-86U and it’s in Ethernet Backhaul Mode. Am I correct in thinking that now the AX-86U is doing the heavy lifting with routing etc the underpowered CD6 nodes are ok to use as AIMesh nodes? I assume they are fundementaly now providing an AP function within the mesh so their lack of processing power shouldn’t cause an issue? Just wanted to know whether the processing power of AIMesh nodes is that important.
You’re correct, Dale. The buffering issue, though, might have more to do with your Internet connection than your router. More on that in this post about QoS.
Hi Dong, hope you’re still managing this post.
I currently have the 3 Lyra’s setup but it’s lacking.
I’m thinking of
1) getting a new Asus router as main and have the 3 Lyra’s as nodes (to be cost effective)
or
2) spend a bit more money and go with Unifi APs.
My home has at least 10 devices using Wifi at the same time, some are streaming netflix/youtube and the others are browsing or working (conference calls).
Which out of the 2 solutions would you recommend? (3000 sqft home not including basement)
Hi Ben,
1. I hope that you actually read this post in its entirety (your questions suggested otherwise.)
2. Considering #1. I’d recommend you get a tri-band Wi-Fi 5 AiMesh router and use the Lyra as the satellites.
3. Your issue might be Internet-related and has nothing to do with your Wi-Fi. More in this post.
Hi Dong
Yes I didn’t read the whole blog so sorry on that. But thanks for the reply and recommendation =)
Thanks dong for the informative blog.
Sure, Ethan. 🙂
Hi Dong,
Based on a re-read and detailed look at your articles. I have decided to do the following: I ordered an RT-AX86U for the primary node of the mesh. I will put the BGW320 Arris ONT / Gateway in IP Passthrough and map it to the AX86U. I also ordered 2ea of the XD6’s for my secondary nodes and will use wired backhaul. I have to figure out how to run CAT5e or better cable out to my shop, but I committed to wired backhaul with my choice and purchase. Thanks for the help and the in depth write ups. I am still re-reading them.
By the way, I am in Semiconductor Sales and one of the lines I represent is Qorvo…I now have a burgeoning customer that will be designing Wifi 6/E solutions to supply to service providers. I am starting to dig in to FEMs and PAs for building Gateways/Routers. I don’t know whose FEMs the ASUS products use, but will be tempted to open the case and look 🙂
Take care,
Andy
That’s a good setup and will work out well, Andy. Keep me posted if you find something interesting with those FEMs. 🙂
Will do!
Hi Dong,
Just following up to let you know I received my AX86U and 2pack of XD6’s. I have the ONT Gateway in IP passthrough mode and fixed it manually to the MAC address of the AX86U. I also turned off its radios…I connected its output to the AX86U WAN port and ethernet backhauled from AX86U LAN port to the XD6 (WAN port) in my office across the house.
I am getting 600Mbps pretty symmetric up/down with my MacBook Pro and closer to 700Mbps with iPhone when in the office. I have my wife’s iMac connected directly/wired to the XD6 LAN port and the iMac is getting over 900Mbps since all is hardwired back to the AX86U.
Very pleased with the choices so far. I started this process due to how many Teams/Zoom/Webex meetings I attend using my MB Pro in my office and I was not getting enough signal for the video to be great every time…I lost connection from time to time all too frequently. I will next learn how to manage QoS through the ASUS web interface which is quite good, and prioritize my MB Pro for help with these Video Meetings.
Setting up the AIMesh with the ASUS tool was easy and their tool is intuitive and nice to use. Lots of interesting information available with that tool!
I will add ethernet cable to get out to the shop from the AX86U and add the second XD6 node out there.
I made my product choices purely from what I learned on your site…including cable selection and installing ports on the Cat5e cables for my backhaul. Thanks for a well done bunch of lessons and tutorials…very cool!
-Andy
That’s excellent, Andy! And thanks for sharing the experience! Cheers!
Hello Dong, I have a follow up question…I did read the size matters post…Thx! I am still deliberating. I started reviewing my router in my Arris Gateway supplied by AT&T for their Gig fiber service…BGW320-500. I was looking at it to make sure I could put it in passthrough mode and turn off its internal antennas. It started making me wonder if, instead of setting up a mesh, would it work well if I pulled a wire to the shop somehow and place a satellite in there and also a satellite in my office where I already have a wire pulled and treat them like APs…?? Would I get better performance this way or with a mesh as we described in below post? Thx!
I am implying I would continue to use the current Gateway as the router.
Hi Dong,
Thanks for the insight and the humor. If I buy through the links in your article is there a way to help your site benefit? Would like to do that if it helps.
Thanks!
Andy
That depends, Andy. More info on my About page. Thanks for the thought.
Hello Dong, I have been reading multiple articles on your site. Great information. After reading, I believe the Asus brand AiMesh line up was possibly the best fit. I wanted to get your take to check me.
I have 4100sf + a shop including gym that is detached 3-car size…about 20 feet off the back of home. 3200sf is on main floor…I really don’t care to maximize performance upstairs…half story with 2 guest bedrooms…I care mainly about the 1st floor and shop/gym.
Current system is AT&T Fiber 1000Mbps and BGW320-500 Gateway – Modem + Router (no extenders). It is in the center of the home North/South but on the West side of home…it is in line with my office which is 50feet South with walls between. The shop is 70 feet North of Gateway and a little East.
I have a wire pulled to my office and thought I would use it for backhaul for the South satellite. I want service in the shop / gym to stream music and TV. Will be tougher to wire the backhaul there…but not impossible. (Have not researched running cable outside either above or under ground).
I would like to mix wired/wireless backhaul on first attempt and see what performance is in the shop that way…if not good enough I will figure out how to get a cable to it. You mentioned to use a system that supports both well in regards to mixed backhaul, such as a tri-band AiMesh or Linksys Velop set.
Sorry, didn’t mean to end the post abruptly…hit control key and it posted. I believe I need a 3 pack…one on the north for the shop and one in the south to get my home office.
Thanks for any guidance.
Andy
I can’t be specific, Andy, since I’m not there. But you’re getting close. You can go with one GT-AX11000 as the main router and two RT-AX92Us as satellite nodes. That combo will work well in a mix of wired and wireless setup. More options in this post.
Hello Dong, Thanks for the reply. I can see where that set up (GT-AX11000 + 2x RT-AX92U) could be a good performer and nice feature set! I’m an engineer and would likely have fun working with it and learning. My wife, however, might want to shoot me if I put the AX11000 with all the external antennas up in the middle of our center room that she has a keen eye for haha.
Maybe I go for it anyway…but curious how you think a 3 pack of the ZenWiFi AX XT8 AX6600 would perform in this situation…is it iffy on the mixed backhaul config?
Thx,
Andy
I’d say it would work well, Andy. The thing is, it has happened that, when wired, a new firmware would break the mesh. But that might not happen again, or it might. Only Asus can know. As for the lady, you need to explain why size matters. This post will help.
Hello, really enjoy reading your articles. I currently have an Asus AX11000 and it does for the most part cover my 2300 sq ft house enough that I’m not complaining- there are however some rooms where my download speeds drop a bit. I typically average 300mbps on speed test throughout the house but some rooms will get about 150mbps. Would it be worth adding an Asus rt-ax92u to the mix in a mesh setup or am I not going to see much if any improvement? I know that’s a tough question to answer without more details – really I would like to know would it HURT to add it! thanks
No, Alex. 150Mbps is more than fast enough for almost anything. Adding a wireless node might add a few more Mbps but sure makes things worse in terms of latency, etc.
More in this post: https://dongknows.com/gigabit-internet-and-you/
Hi Dong,
Truly appreciate the very informative articles and all the related posts. Unfortunately, I am not very tech savvy, and I am trying to provide a more stable wifi environment at home, particularly for my many, many smart home devices. My home is a 3-story (2 above grade and a below grade basement, totaling just under 4K sq ft – roughly 1400 sq ft on each of the lower flowers and approx. 1k on the upper floor) wood frame construction without any CAT wiring (just telephone and coaxial). I recently was upgraded to a fiber optic in-coming and have subsequently subscribed to 1G service. After many initial issues getting everything set up properly and stable, the service provider finally got a configuration that works and has decent speeds. They have provided an Actiontec T3200 modem/gateway and have added a pair of range extenders to get good coverage throughout the house. I am also being provided my TV service from this provider through this set up (1 hardwired 4K DVR set-top and 3 4K wireless linked set-top boxes). Unfortunately, I still get regularly inconsistent wifi (it often stalls when watching video on computers or mobile devices), and most annoyingly will occasionally disconnect some of my smart home devices which then in turn don’t always automatically successfully reconnect. I want to give the smart home devices their best chance at a stable environment, and currently they are connected to the 2.4G network as many of them only work on 2.4G and they all seem to integrate better when on the same network. I realize that channel traffic and interference may be playing a factor, but I am trying to avoid a scenario where I have to regularly and frequently reset the network channel as this reconfig. sometimes also results in having to manually reconnect some of the smart home devices. I was thinking of bridging through the current gateway and adding my own ‘better’ router or mesh system in hopes of getting rid of the range extenders and providing a more stable consistent wifi environment (particularly at 2.4G) and was wondering if, based upon, all of this information you might have a recommendation of something I should do differently, or, if you agree that a better router might potentially help my cause, a recommendation on a router that might work well for me.
Thanks
You need to run net work cables and get a wired mesh system, Mark. Unfortunately, there’s no easier solution for your case. https://dongknows.com/get-your-home-wired-with-network-cables/
Hi Dong – I appreciate everything you’ve written here over the years. It’s been incredibly helpful to read up on background info and advice from an independent party while scouring other reviews.
I was wondering if it makes sense to seek out a high-performing mesh system based on wired backhaul support only. I’ll be getting gigabit ethernet and I’m looking for the highest throughput on all nodes. Most reviews only compare wireless throughput performance. Getting something like the Orbi RBK852 seems like overkill given my wired scenario.
You shouldn’t get the Orbi at all if you have wired your home, Nat. And yes, going wired is the ultimate way to get the best-performing system. I myself test mesh in a wireless setup since that’s the only time “testing” is needed. In a wired setup, the performance of the satellite is the same as that of the router (of a wireless setup).
Thanks for the additional links! Some of your content is really hidden away in here. Based on that, I’m leaning towards the Linksys Velop WHW0103 (AC3900). For a 3-pack, it’s currently $150 which is tough to beat. My only concern is that it might be a bottleneck for my 950 megabit connection.
I’d otherwise get one of the Netgear Nighthawk models, but I don’t want to have to deal with an added ethernet switch for wired backhaul.
Sure, Nat. The Velop will work out.
I am in the midst of evaluating a Linksys MX5503 mesh WiFi system, and after a few back and forth conversations with their tech support, and reading the informative posts here, remain perplexed with respect to two issues…maybe part and parcel of what one should expect.
1. The system does NOT automatically update the firmware. One or two weeks ago, I spoke with one of their Philippines based tech support staff, he noted that the latest firmware was dated in September, yet as of my phone call in November, the firmware had NOT automatically updated.
2. The system does NOT automatically identify the node with the most powerful signal…once a given device connects to the system, it stays there, and the system cannot reassign from a weaker signal to a stronger one, i.e. closer node versus more distant node.
3. The only way to get a device connected to a closer node is to turn it off, then turn it back on, and THEN it connects to the closest node with the strongest system.
4. Sometimes, i.e. when a laptop is turned off and turned on the next day, or we leave home and return home, our Samsung Galaxy S10 devices cannot connect to the system…they “see” the network with strong signal, try to identify the IP address, but cannot connect to the child nodes…they CAN connect to the mother node, however, whatever that means.
Maybe this is as good as it gets with the current technology.
Not sure if any other company’s mesh WiFi systems work better than this, but I am slightly disappointed, to say the least.
Hi Dong,
I am curious as to what you think is the best Mesh system for configurable hand-off? I live in a 3 story house that is not that big front to back, side to side but the top floor is a challenge signal wise.
The ground and 1st floors are hardwired and I have tried a Linksys Velop system (Atlas Pro 2 pack and previously the AX4200) with the main unit downstairs and the node on the 1st floor landing. The thing is it does not hand off between nodes at all as whilst the speeds do drop significantly between them the signal must be strong enough to not trigger it.
On the linksys other than switching node steering on or off (which seems change nothing) you cannot adjust the handoff. I am curious as to whether say an Orbi or Asus setup would allow more configuration? I have had an orbi a few years ago and seem to remember that you could? I also currently have a single Asus AX86U I could add to.
I am probably looking at diminishing returns here but I just want to resolve!
Many thanks
The customization doesn’t mean much on this front, Neil. https://dongknows.com/asus-aimesh-overview/#extra-how-to-set-up-roaming-assistance-in-an-aimesh-setup
Dong, is there a tick to using mesh-incompatible hardware (such as TP-link light switches) with a mesh internet? I have a 3-hub Asus RT-AX92U wired mesh system, but my devices look to connect to a particular router, Unfortunately all routers share the same name, so I cannot identify the closest router to my TP-link switch. The switch often configures with the farther router and has signal issues. Any ideas? Thanks in advance for your help,
Hi Perry. First make sure you read this post closely, especially the Seemless handoff section. After that, this post on troubleshooting will help.
Thanks Dong. My issue involves the TP-Link Wi-Fi compatible dimmers that connect to my existing ASUS mesh network. The mesh network has great coverage with three RT-AX92U units (a broadcaster and two satellites with a wired backbone). But the light switches see three different SSIDs of the same name for connection and makes me pick one. I can’t tell which is which because names identical.
Hi Dong – I appreciate the research and informative articles on mesh networking and creating a network from scratch. I recently jumped into T-Mobile 5G Home Internet and have my Cox Cable and Home Internet running concurrently since I telework. The Cox Plan is up to 400 mbps, while I observed the T-Mobile Home Internet provides roughly 100-150 mbps during the past week. We are also converting from cable TV to YouTube TV. The T-Mobile Gateway needs to be on the second floor near a window. However, I work in the basement and also have a TV in the basement where the wifi signal strength is not great. Our house is wired with coaxial cable.
Based on your articles, I understand that a wifi 6 mesh system is the best, but for my bandwidth, a higher end system probably isn’t appropriate (i.e., tri vs. dual band). With this in mind, I still purchased a Orbi AX4200 because we may move within the next six months (it is still in the box). However, I read a few articles about MoCA this morning and I wanted to get your thoughts on an idea. Would it make sense to buy a dual band wifi 6 system (i.e., tp-link Deco X20), use a MoCA setup to convert the coax cable to ethernet, and hardwire a lesser mesh system to the basement and first floor? I know you mentioned that the Orbi shouldn’t be used as hardwire because it defeats the purpose of the tri-band concept. Also, I am not sure if the MoCA idea would work. I appreciate your help.
MoCA is hit or miss, Jude, and only you would know since you live there. That’s because just because you see a coaxial outlet in a room and another one in another room doesn’t mean the wiring behind them is connected. They are often fragmented, and you won’t know that until you plug the adapters in. As you can imagine, coaxial cables are wired in a way to deliver services from outside to different rooms in your house, and it’s not designed to link the rooms together. But if you want to use MoCA make sure you use the latest adapters — only those will give you Gigabit speed Full Duplex.
Also, there’s no way for me to know router or mesh system will work in your place. Listing your rooms doesn’t mean anything because it all depends on the layout of your house. But you’re getting close. If you need more information, this post on routers will help. Good luck! Good call on moving to YouTube TV, by the way.
Hey Dong, thanks for all the hard work reviewing all the new equipment that keeps showing up. I have a particular scenario at a vacation property where the internet provider also controls the router / gateway. Its a Linksys but not sure the exact model number. The coverage from the single router is marginal, especially on the deck. I would like to install a mesh network with following requirements:
* Cannot access the router as its locked down, but do have the ability to shutoff the Wifi radio.
* Need a budget mesh system that can work well in AP mode
* Only need 2 nodes based on the size of unit.
* Ethernet available for 2nd Node, but would prefer support for wireless also.
* Only need Wifi 5 speed due to very low ISP bandwidth (think 20 Mbps)
I don’t do this kind of specific consultation, Butler. Spend some time here and you might find what you want. Maybe get some access points.
How about if I simplify the request to:
Are there mesh network systems that will work behind an ISP provided router?
Everything I have looked at seems to want to replace the router, which we cant do.
They ALL can. More in this post on that topic.
Hi Dong, thanks much for the great site and info.
After yet another Orbi firmware forced upgrade that totally borked my network, I’m looking for an alternative. I just finished pulling Cat 6e through the house, so have wired backhaul, and GB internet coming in. There’s 3 remote AP’s plus the main router/switch by the cable modem.
So question: Do I go with just a router/AP setup, or a 2 channel mesh with wired backhaul for best performance? Mostly apple devices, which are notorious for not roaming quickly enough, so want something that works pretty seamless as I walk around the house.
And with that answer, suggestions on brands? Not netgear obviously, and I’m not a fan of ubiquit after their security issues (or any other cloud-forced management like amazon/google kit). Wifi 6 or 6e for future proofing would be ideal.
Any advice/suggestions would be very welcome!
Hi Doug,
1. You don’t want to use Netgear Orbi if you have wired your home.
2. Apple stuff is not the norm. It tends to work well ONLY with other Apple stuff. (That sucks, I know, but you only have Apple or the fact that you like Apple to blame.)
3. For your case, get an Asus dual-band mesh. You can check out more options by following that link. If you don’t want to spend the time, get the ZenWiFi XD6 review (vs ZenWiFi XT8): An Excellent (Wired) Mesh Alternative.
Yeah, the apple stuff is frustrating. Elgato is even worse though, as it flat-out doesn’t work on an ax network.
I’ll check out that post
What’s your thoughts on 6 vs 6e these days? I don’t expect ever having more than 1GB internet where I live, but do want fast internal wifi for local file movement.
Thank you for the great article and it’s continuing updates!
I was wondering if you had an opinion on Ayrstone products {linked removed}
I am trying to find a suitable outdoor system for acreage on our ranch. I’ve been happy with the synology rt2600 for years, but it can’t get the outdoor coverage I’m looking for. Any thoughts? [or way outside of your purview!]
You can use this access point, or the outdoor one mentioned in this post, Bruce.
Dong, Excellant explanations on the gaps for mesh networking when ethernet is available, thank you. My son is moving into his first house and has Ethernet throughout – and the only equipment he has is a single AmpliFi HD Mesh Router for his small apartment. Imagine he will have gigabit service from ATT or Comast, thus a combo modem/router as part of the service. Can I setup the internet provider router with a wifi network and then use the Amplifi he has in a remote location and get another access point (AP) for another remote location? All the network names/password should be the same. Also, he is investigating security cameras for several areas, was hoping to have them wired also, does that complicate the situation of the router or AP selections?
Yes, you can, S. Use the AmpliFi HD (and other broadcasters in other remote areas if need be) in the AP (Bridge) mode. More in this post. As for the cameras, that depends on what you use but generally, you likely won’t have any issues when you wired them properly.
Fantastic source of info, really grateful for your expert guidance Dong!
We have a ASUS RT-AC3200 in the basement of a two story home and it worked flawlessly so far, but we would like to cover a few spotty areas on the higher floor bedrooms. Can it be made into a mesh with any newer ASUS routers or should I keep it as a backup and purchase a decent mesh system from ASUS? Thanks!!
Unless you have wired your home, you can’t use this router with another Asus router as a system. (If you have wired your home, it can work as an access point.) More in this post Give it a serious read!
Thank you Dong, your articles on WiFi and routers have been very thorough and level headed. It’s helped me make sound product choices for my new home networking setup.
Sure, Sam. Congrats on the new home! 🙂
Dong, great website! Can you actually use Plastic Optic Fibre (POF) cables as wired backhaul instead of ethernet?
Yes, you can, Axel, as long as you have the PoF-to-Ethernet converter at both ends of the cable. In this case, it’s similar to using Powerline adapters but the performance should be much better. Still, it’s not as good as running network cables.
Thanks. Can you clarify when you say PoF wouldn’t be better than running Ethernet network cables (Cat 6E, Cat 7 etc)?
From what I understand the PoF cables (OM4, or OM5) are more flexible, and data can travel faster in them than Ethernet over the same range. I realise you’d need a PoF to Ethernet converter at one end, and right now the consumer ones seem to be Gigabit switches (but I suppose over time you’d have multi gig switches which become cheaper as time moves on). Just seems like PoF – in theory – should mean the actual cabling will be far more “future proofed.”
Right now PoF should help act as wired backhaul for Gigabit internet through the home, or am I mistaken? And if the internet speeds start reaching 10Gbps over the next decade, then the cabling could handle it, you’d just have to update the “convertors” surely?
I’m not an expert in PoF — you seem to know more about that than me actually. But, generally, when it comes to networking, nothing beats CAT cables. Converters are always problematic. But if you can’t run them then anything is better than no wire at all.
Hi Dong, Much thanks for the very helpful website!
Wondering what you would recommend for my situation: hard-wired Ethernet cables throughout a 3-story house. They are set up for phone use right now though, so I need to re-terminate with Ethernet jacks and buy a network switch(?? not sure).
In terms of routers/APs, I need at least 3, preferably 4 units for coverage reasons: thinking one per floor, plus one in the detached garage. What would you suggest looking at?
Thanks!
Yes, you might need to re-terminate the cables. It’s easy enough. After that, I’d recommend a set of dual-band AiMesh routers.
Thank you for replying, Dong! I’ve spent the last 4 hours learning from your excellent website.
Hoping you have the bandwidth (ha, ha) to tell me my current plan is reasonable:
– Buy a ASUS ZenWiFi AX Mini (XD4 x 3) set,
– using one XD4 as a router and connecting it for wired backhaul, via a NETGEAR GS305 5-port network switch, to
— the 2 other XD4s (one each on the 2nd and 3rd floors)
— and to an ASUS RP-AX56 (running as an AIMesh node, placed in the garage).
Does this sound reasonable? Open to any and all thoughts/criticism/new directions to look into. Thank you again so much!
That sounds good, Jay. Good luck! 🙂
Dong,
new home under construction – large home – 5200 sq ft on two levels, 123′ long shallow house on a downslope. Fully wired with Cat 6. Because of open spaces, multiple ports wired in ceiling for visible ceiling mounted AP’s. final count depends on signal strength.
struggling to determine best hardware for our needs. Have read your posts. Have some network setting understanding beyond just “plug and play”
Setup:
2 offices wired for direct internet connection,
televisions wired for direct cat 6 connection.
POE exterior cameras with an NVR
Want to use Wifi 6 for future proofing.
Needs:
AP’s must be ceiling mounted and are highly visible. So white aesthetics matter.
3 SSID’s minimum – personal, guest and IOT (for smart tv’s, sonos, etc.)
Would also like smooth handoff as people move through house if possible.
Like your analysis for Asus / AiMesh/ ZenWifi, but can’t find Asus ceiling POE AP’s. Should I stick with Asus and mix manufacturers for the APs?Or am I better off with one manufacturer for ease of managment and better handoff? Such as Ubiquiti (won’t use their cameras either way – too costly) What would you recommend?
Depending on your Internet speed, Lake, you can get either Wi-Fi 6 or Wi-Fi 5 APs (they are easily replaceable.) In any case, I’d start with a good router — I’d recommend the Asus RT-AX86U. After that, get this Wi-Fi 5 AP, or this Wi-Fi 6 one. The hand-off is always hit or miss, if you configure these business APs correctly, it will work well. In any case, you don’t want APs that require an app and a login account to work.
Dong,
Following up on my recent question about new construction home network with wired in ceiling access points (thanks again for your initial reply). Just spoke with Asus for the AT-AX86U that we discussed. Asus is telling me however, that as a dual band router, I can only have two SSID’s – my personal one and one guest. Not IOT SSID — that with all asus routers I can only have 1 SSID per band. Is this your understanding?
If so , that means I would have to get a tri-band even with wired backhaul to pair with either TP-Link / Ubiquiti access point that supports 3 SSIDs?
Lastly, if I end up with an unanticpated “dead spot” and don’t have a wired port in the right loaction, could I elect to use an Asus in wall AX1800, would that work in a dual band setup even though that one spot dos not have wired back haul? I think so. Of course that is subject to the SSID question above too.
Best regards and many thanks for all the wonderful education.
Lake
Generally, Lake, an Asus router, gives you one main SSID and up to three Guest SSIDs for each of its bands. You can easily turn a Guest SSID into a “main” one by allowing Intranet access — more in this post on Guest networks. Also, check out this post on AiMesh. But I’d recommend that you start with the RT-AX86U and work it up from there. Don’t make assumptions, and then keep asking questions since nobody knows what you actually have in mind.
Thanks – your explanation makes much more sense. I asked about multiple guest networks and kept getting told no one ssid per band. Having read your site, I suspected your information was much more accurate!!
Again, deep appreciation!
Lake
Sure, Lake. 🙂
Hi I have 80mbps internet, I’m trying to decide between m9 deco or x60 deco, I need wireless backhaul with 3 device mesh , which one you think is better ?
I haven’t tested the M9, Juan, but for that Internet speed, either is fine. That said, you should go with the X60 since it supports Wi-Fi 6.
Can three ASUS ROG AXE11000 be connected via their 2.5Gbps ports to an unmanaged 2.5Gbps 8 port switch to perform backhaul in their AI Mesh config? Or even four for that matter? I know that the AXE11000 can be connected to each other for AI Mesh backhaul, but that obviously uses up the 2.5Gbps ports leaving additional AXE11000 excluded from using the 2.5Gbps backhaul. So can a 2.5Gbps unmanaged switch be used for backhaul among multiple AXE11000 routers in AI Mesh mode?
Yes, but not the router unit, Danno, when you want to use Multi-Gig WAN. So in the end your network still maxes out at 1Gbps for the most part. If Multi-Gig wired network is what you want, I’d use the RT-AX89X as the main router.
Hi Dong,
Superb article, Dong! Very informative.
I understand that you said mesh hubs can be connected using a switch in between the main and satellite hubs. The question is, have you encounter any brand like Huawei, Xiaomi, TP-Link that don’t allow a switch in between them?
Thanks.
Len
No, Len. Technically, it’s not possible for any to exclude a switch in between unless you use a configured managed switch, which likely won’t work for a mesh in many cases when placed in between. So by a switch, I always mean an unmanaged switch.
Thank you Dong. This clears all my doubts about switch. I’m very grateful to you.
// Off topic.
Will you be writing a new article about using traditional routers, e.g., 3 number of Huawei AX3 as mesh system VS designed mesh system ( 3 number of TP-Link X90)? I wish to know what’s the differences between them. Thank you.
Sure, Len. As I mentioned in this post, you can use multiple hardware units, with one as a router and the rest in the AP mode. Not all routers can work as part of a mesh system. I only review hardware available in the U.S. Huawei routers are not.
Good Day Doug,
I’m hoping you can help me decide which way we should go for WiFi in our house. The house is a 80 ft long x 35 ft wide side split. This meaning that we have 4 different floor levels. With this set up, we have a 2.5 ft thick stone / block chimney wall halfway through the house (40 ft mark) and concrete block walls mid way.
We currently have the following set up.. D-link CVOR-2600 mesh system. With a CVOR-2600 router in the basement, beside the stone wall and furnace. This is also where the modem enters the house.. I also have a 26 port switch and NAS at this location. We then have one CVOR-1300 “node” on each of the upper floors (x2), about 15 ft from each end wall.. I do have cat5 cabling running throughout most of the house with 2 cables to almost each room.
We do have a LOT of 2.4g WiFi smart home devises connecting to the system.. Including multiple cameras (can be hard wired), multiple google hubs, multiple google mini’s, multiple smart switches, a couple “smart” rumba’s, minimum of 3 cell phones, and 2 tablets, and a couple lap tops.
So we have terrible signal strength throughout the house.. Averaging about -60 dbs at best, and into -80 dbs at some locations, let alone outside on the patio. Even near the routers / nodes. We have multiple items dropping on and off the system at all times.
We did try a duel ASUS RT-AX92U at the 15 ft from each end mark. We actually lost signal strength with this set up..
So, my question is, what would be the best way to get stronger and more stable system.. As I can not relocate my main router location, should i have a very large router at that location (ie: Asus GT-AX11000 or simular) and something larger like ASUS RT-AX88U at each 15 ft mark (hard wired to the switch for back haul. Or would I be better served to run some more network cabling and hard wired TP-link or UBIQUITI access points in each room?
Thanks,
Kevin
Since you have wired your home, it’s best to use dual-band hardware, Kevin. I mentioned that in this post, as well as other posts about mesh systems. For your case, get a dual-band router (like the RT-AX86U , as the main router and then a few dual-band nodes (RT-AX86U, RT-AX68U, RT-AX82U, XD4, RP-AX56). You can use all one unit or a mix of them. More in this post.
Hi Dong,
Thanks for taking the time to write up these articles. They are so informative that I just can’t stop reading, and they have given me plenty of insight in planning the home network for my new home. I hope you don’t mind giving me some advice. This may be wordy, so please bear with me….
I live in Australia. I am moving to a 10-year-old apartment that has brick walls all around, and no pre-wired ethernet. Size is about 1,500 sq ft, 3 bedrooms. The existing owner has had broadband (NBN) set up, and it is in a FTTP (Fibre To The Premises) format. FTTP, in my case here, means the ISP stick a fibre into my apartment through the wall that separates my apartmant and the corridor, and the fibre stops as soon as it entires my place (since the building is not pre-wire for broadband. Such a backward country. Haha). Unfortunately, the fibre stops at my master bedroom, which is surrounded by brick walls and has not direct line of sight to the rest of my place. Since my master bedroom is where the fibre stops, it is the only place where the router/modem has to be placed. Running ethernet wiring is not an option due to the brick walls and my wife’s directive of “no visible wirings”. These are the reasons why I am a bit worried about how to get my home network running.
One lucky thing is that with FTTP from this particular ISP, I don’t need to use their supplied modem/router (which is actually not bad, a Sagemcom 5366 LTE, a Wifi 6). Now I want to set up a mesh network. But due to the mentioned concerns, I am thinking of adding powerline adapters (e.g. TP-Link AV2000 or Netgear PLP2000) so that the mesh units can use the powerline network as a “pseudo” ethernet backhaul. I am thinking of either Asus ZenWifi AX, or Linksys Velop.
We don’t play online games, but we stream 4K movies from my NAS to the living room and bedrooms, in addition to the usual laptops, ipads, mobile phones, SmartTVs, etc. As for my internet access, its 100Mbps (I know, internet speed in Australia is pathetic… and super expensive)
In light of the above concerns and requirements, my questions are:
1 In an apartment of this size with brick walls, which backhaul do you think will give better performance: a wireless backhaul, or a powerline backhaul (assuming electrical wiring is not messy, and for a 10 year old building, it shouldn’t be)?
2 And based on your assessment to question 1, which mesh system do you think is better (Asus, Linksys, or others I haven’t thought of)?
Thanks a lot.
Hi David,
1. I have no idea.
2. I have no idea.
Honestly, I have to be there to know what to do. And you already are. I’d recommend you spend some time (on this website) and figure out what is what. It’s never an easy answer. You can start with this post. Take a serious read!
Hi Dong,
Thanks for the reply. I understand your apprenhension in giving advice without being on site or given more concrete information. It is my bad.
I read the post and took another look at my situation. Furthmore, I went to the apartment today (actually, technically it is still not yet mine, as it has not been settled (means closing escrow in US term) yet) today, and scanned the wifi signals in the house using Wifi Analyzer (the current owner is still there and he has wifi). He uses a TP-Link Archer AC1200, sitting at right where the internet fibre ends in the apartment, which is in the master bedroom, on the east end of the entire apartment. I took the wifi signal reading at several places, and this is what I got:
A. At the centre of the master bedroom: -35dbm (not really meaningful, just there for kicks)
B. In the living room where the TV is (the recipient of most of the streaming videos) : -58dbm
C. In the study, which is on the north side of the apartment, next to the master bedroom: -50 dbm
As I have mentioned, the internet speed is mediocre (100Mbps), but for me, it is more important that my local network is running at high speed since I stream and move large files around (20 plus GB per file), between my laptops, NAS (QNAP TS-253B), tablets, and 2 TVs in the living room and master bedroom. I would like to ask the following questions:
1. Do you think a -58dbm signal in the living room warrant a Mesh wifi network, with wireless backhaul, vs the current single point router originating from the master bedroom? (Let’s forget what I mentioned about using powerline as a pseudo wired backhaul for a Mesh network for now.)
2. Do you think a -50dbm signal is strong enough for a study that will host 4 laptops (all wifi6) running concurrently? With my wife and I both working from home, we need 4 laptops running, and both of us move files around.
3. I am still trying to think of the best place to put my NAS. If a single Wifi router solution is sufficient, then the NAS must be next to the router, as it requires a wired connection. But if I am going to the Mesh solution, do you think it is a good idea to place the NAS in the study next to my laptop so that at least between the NAS and my laptop, there will be a gigabit connection since with a Mesh node, I will be plugging JR45s to both my laptop and NAS from the same Mesh node, which should work as a switch, I hope. A mesh node (e.g. a Asus ZenWifi Ax or a Linksys Velop) also work as a switch right?
Of course, the answer to question 3 will depend on answers to question 1 and 2. Would appreciate any insight you may have. Thanks.
Those -dbm numbers are good, David, though that depends on your environment. More on that here. I don’t think you need a mesh for your place, it seems. And no, you must connect the NAS via a wired connection to the network, with no wireless in between.
Hi Dong
Thanks for your reply.
>> Those -dbm numbers are good
Do you mean they are strong enough for their respective locations in the apartment?
>> And no, you must connect the NAS via a wired conneciton to the network, with no wireless in between.
(Assuming not using a Mesh) By that, do you mean I must connect the NAS to my router with RJ45 in the master bedroom?
As mentioned, my apartment does not have LAN pre-wired, and running cable through walls to different rooms is not an option as my wife hates to see them, so any LAN cable can only be within a room. However, as I will be transferring a lot of these large files to the NAS from my laptop, I would want to at least make the connection between my laptop and the NAS fast. Now, if I connect the NAS to the router in the master bedroom, my laptop’s connection to the NAS will have to go through wifi, unless I revisit the powerline option to connect my masterbedroom and my study with powerline adapters. But we all know that is a big unknown. A -50dbm signal vs powerline? …
By the way, if I use a good wifi6 router, and add powerline for things that need/prefer wired connectons (like the NAS, and my network printer, which although is wifi capable, I like using LAN cables), what do you think about TP-link’s OneMesh option? I read from your other posts that you are not high on it. But could it be a satisfactory solution in my case?
David,
Use site search. And again, I don’t have answers for your specific home/case.
1. dBm (I already linked this).
2. OneMesh. And here, too.
3. Powerline.
Hi Dong
Right, my bad again. Anyway, I have one last question. You may have answered it already but I couldn’t make it out of what you said so I just want to confirm. If I connect a computer and a NAS to the same Mesh node via LAN (assuming of course I am using a mesh network), can the node act as a switch and provide a local fast connection between the computer and the NAS? Thanks
David
Like I said, “wired with no wireless in between”. So make sure it’s NOT a wireless node.
Hi Dong,
I live in a duplex where I must share an internet connection with my family neighbours. As a result, I have to use their WIFI from my pc.
At the moment, I am getting full bars in terms of connection but I frequently drop out of connection when gaming.
So, I have been looking into upgrading the cheap sub-$50 Xiaomi router to mesh.
I was looking at getting a traditional triband 2-pack mesh with WIFI 6 and was wondering if I am able to maximise the stability and connection of the wireless backhaul with this sort of set up?
Or, would I be better off purchasing a 3 pack without a traditional triband given that they are both the same budget.
I live in Australia with a 50/20 Mbps connection so stability is more of what I am after since our speeds are real slow here.
Thank you in advance,
David
For your situation, no hardware will help with gaming, period, David. Don’t waste your money — and you ALWAYS waste your money if you look into cheap networking products. It might help if you run a cable from your neighbor into your home (or to your gaming machine). Ultimately, there are just too many things that can be bad for your gaming needs, starting from the broadband’s speed itself. More in this post.
Hey, Dong.
Thanks for always replying to our wifi issues.
My setup at home is (240 sqm floor area over three floors. Unfortunately the fiber modem is downstairs, and that’s where the main router is connected. It’s an asus ct8.
On the 2nd floor is a another CT8 with signal strength on 5ghz backhaul around -55dbm. Across the hall on the 2nd floor is a mesh node connected to the 2nd floor CT8. It’s an asus xd4 mini. It has average signal of -46dbm.
On the 3rd floor is another xd4 connected to the CT8 on the 2nd floor, too. Its connection quality is around -60dbm.
It has worked mostly seamlessly and stable since I added the two xd4s. But since 5 days ago, the mesh ct8 disconnects from the main often and reconnects either to the xd4s or back to the main BUT at 2.4ghz backhaul! The signal strength of either xd4 to the main is poor, around -75 to -85 dbm.
It’s infuriating especially since kid’s school and work is all done remotely.
Is there any way for me to make the topology static? Also, the mesh node ct8 has a switch wired to it for the work setup of my wife.
Thanks as always, for the great insight.
Yes, you can do that with the AiMesh section of the router, Jom. However, mixing tri-band and dual-band is always problematic. More here: https://dongknows.com/best-aimesh-routers-and-combos/. Make sure you read the post and the related one.
We have a one level brick house of 2650 sf. I have a shed at one end about 20 feet from the house (long dimension) where I want WiFi. My modem is close to the center of the house’s longer dimension, but off center on the shorter dimension. Would it be best to use three mesh routers in a star pattern?
It’s always safe, and the best approach, to use the star topology, Mark. Go for it!
Thanks. I will get three ZenWiFi XT(8) routers and place one near the modem, one on one end of the house and another toward the other end of the house.
Sure, Mark. And good call! 🙂
Hello Dong,
I have a 2400 sq ft. 2 story center hall colonial home (each floor is 1200 sq ft) with an unfinished basement (wireless sprinkler controller down there). I currently have a Netgear r7000p nighthawk router and 2 RT-AC68u routers wirelessly connected as access points. Recently, the r7000p started crapping out (not seeing anything connected) and even rebooted a few times on its own. Rebooting the entire system has helped but I plan to purchase a TP-Link Deco M5 mesh 2 pack to replace this system. Should this work? If not, should I get the 3rd M5 unit or use 1 or both of the RT-AC68u units? If I use the AT-AC68u unit(s), can they work in this mesh system? Thanks!
Get another Asus Wi-Fi 5 router and all three in an AiMesh setup, Henry.
So you’re saying that an Asus mesh network is preferable over the TP-Link mesh network? Would that 3rd Asus be necessary?
Yes, Henry. You can start with the current two first and see how things work out, then add another one if need be — or use the Netgear as an AP.
Dong,
Thank you for the excellent article. I’m ready to buy my first mesh system and you cleared up a lot of things but the options are overwhelming. I have gig internet with main router on second floor and AP in attic that helps a bit. On main floor the other side of the house gets really slow speeds, possibly due to signal going through kitchen and walls. Home is 3200 sq ft and I currently get some signal in basement and outside.
I believe I need a tri-band system that has option for wired backhaul. The previous owners had a security system and the house is wired with CAT5e. Unfortunately it’s a spaghetti mess in the basement and I may or may not be able to use existing cables if I ever figure out which is which. I’d love to pull better cable but that’s not an option at this point.
I was looking at the Orbi RBK752. Price is high end of budget but I don’t know if it support wired backhaul; some forums implies that it does but nothing is mentioned in manual.
Any suggestions?
Orbi is a terrible choice for wired backhauls, Ken. You’ll note that if you read any of my reviews on those. But more in this post. You should get the Velop MX4200 instead. Make sure you *read* the review! (Don’t just scan through and look for what you want.)
I definitely need wired backhaul “just in case”.
I did additional reading and based on your reviews I’m going to get the Velop MX4200, two units for now. I am going to wait for Prime Day to see if they discount and report back when they are installed.
Like many of us, I’m often guilty of scanning a review for what I want and moving on. I’ve learned more on this site than anywhere else, thank you for the help.
Sure, Ken! :). And good call on the MX4200.
Hi Dong,
I live in a 1100 sq ft apartment and using 100 Mbps Xfinity line. I have around 16 – 18 devices that includes around 2 windows laptops, 1 macbook, 3 phones, 3 tablets, baby camera and couple of minor wifi devices like time clock, weather station etc. Also, i have few devices like TV, PS4, Apple TV which runs on wired internet and directly connected to modem. I will usually get 90 Mbps – 110Mbs on wired network whereas 40 – 60 Mbps on wifi. I use a Netgear C6900 Modem – Router Combo which i have purchase back in 2017 November. Recently, i am seeing lot of problems (Internet slow) with Wifi and every day I am rebooting (either thru app reboot or hard reboot). Internet will become terribly slow and unusable (sped of just 4 – 5 Mbps). I called Xfinity and they rn troubleshooting nd confirmed its my router issues and asked me to upgrade/change my router.
Hence, planning to get a Linksys Velop AX4200 WiFi 6 Mesh System 2-Pack. I will use my current C900 as Modem and use the Linksys Velop as mesh router. Please suggest if that will be good idea? Also, do i need to connect the Main router and satellite hub thru wired connection or wireless will be ok. I am planning to keep the satellite hub around 30 ft apart from main router (living room and work room) separated by 1 wall.
Also, can please advise me if you recommend to any other alternate router model.
You need a new modem too, D. https://dongknows.com/how-to-install-your-own-cable-modem/
Well, I was wrong. I don’t need wired backhaul, I’m getting 960 DL from wired PC and 942 on the farthest node, not going to bother trying to hookup wire. Speeds drop quite a bit around the house but will try to move node around see if I can get better location, but still strong all around.
I did notice that when it seems to switch nodes it does take a few seconds because speed will jump quite a bit.
Wired backhauls are generally better, Ken, but no, you don’t necessarily need it, especially if your house has a lot of open spaces. That seems great, your speed.
Hi Dong,
I’ve been trying to figure out the right router setup since I moved about 5 months ago, and your website is the best thing I’ve found in all of my searching. I was a little surprised your website seemed to have the best info on the web until I realized you used to be the CNET router guy and then it all made sense.
My problem is that I just can’t figure out if my house needs a mesh or single router set up. It’s just under 1800 sqft, but it’s 1.5 story and much longer than it is wide (56′ long x 20′ wide) with a basement I plan to finish at some point in the distant future. I’ve tried a Netgear R6250 in a central location on the top floor and a Google Wifi mesh setup. I have trouble getting signal to the back of my main floor, and I’m not sure if one of your recommended single WIFI 6 routers would do the trick or if I need an upgraded mesh system. I have gigabit internet service and want to future-proof this purchase as much as reasonable. I’m leaning towards a 2-unit mesh since the house is so much longer than it is wide. Also, I feel like a mesh system might be better if I continue to add smart home devices to the network regardless of whether a mesh system is needed to blanket the whole house.
What would you do?
I’d run network cables and get an AiMesh set via wired backhaul, Alex. That’s literally what I have. It should be relatively easy in your case considering the square footage. Good luck!
And welcome to DKT! 🙂
Wow! Thanks for the quick reply, Dong! I had a feeling you’d recommend wired back haul. Which AiMesh set would you choose for yourself if you were starting over?
Hi Dong, great article and lots of good commenting.
We are about to build our family home and want strong good quality wifi throughout.
We were thinking to get nine of these {link removed}
In summary, the best option would be to hard wire all these together from a gigabit switch? Or would using them wirelessly be just as fast?
Also, if they are hard wired, would the seamless switching between the units still work?
Thanks so much!
Aaron
No, Aaron. In this case, you need somewhat of a business solution. So maybe a router of your choice and a few of these APs.
Hi Dong,
Thanks for putting up such a vastly informative site. Really helps to learn and decide on our next router setups. I have a 1500 sqft home, but with a bit of a complex layout and solid brick walls. I am considering either Netgear Orbi RBK353 (3 pack dual band) or Orbi RBK752 (2 pack Tri band). My internet connection is 200 Mbps, and my main need is seamless connectivity while moving across 4 rooms and I have about 5-10 devices at max. Can you please suggest which would be a better option with and without ethernet backhaul.
Many thanks,
Ash
Get the Linksys MX4200, Ash. https://dongknows.com/linksys-velop-mx4200-ax4200-mesh-router-review/
Hello Dong,
A very thorough and informative article. Thanks for that. Highly appreciated. I am about to purchase 13 Huawei AX3 Quadcore WIFI6PLUS units and plan to use them as a a backhaul ethernet mesh wireless network with one unit acting as the main hub and the other 12 as satellite hubs. I would be interested in your thoughts, i.e., will the main hub be able to handle all 12 satellites? The AX3 Quadcore units seem to be quite high spec. By the way this will replace my current system which is an 8 year old “NETGEAR WC7500 ProSAFE Wireless LAN Controller with 12 WNDAP360 access points”.
I have no experience with Huawei broadcasters, B. They are not available in the U.S. But generally, you can have an almost unlimited amount of APs. It’s just a matter of controlling them. This one sure will work.
Very helpful article… I learned lots of useful things as I looked for an answer to my question, which I didn’t find, so here goes…
I need to pick a mesh system. Super-high performance is not necessary, and economy is important. I’m probably going to run the mesh in AP mode because I need the ISP’s router to remain as the router (I’ll turn off the Wifi of the ISP router).
So far, that’s easy. Here’s the complicating part: I have a very unusual house. It’s really two houses joined together.
House1 is steel frame construction (which seems to interfere with cellphone service but I’m not sure if it interferes with communications in the WiFi bands). The ISP service is to this house.
In House2, both the exterior AND INTERIOR walls are concrete block with steel rebar reinforcement (this definitely interferes with WiFi).
There is an ethernet cable running between the “houses” that could be used, for example, to connect a satellite (if the chosen system’s can be connected that way).
As a result of the nature of my “double house,” I’ve concluded that I may need a mesh setup with more than three total units. I know I can buy extra satellites for some systems, but it seems that it might be more economical to buy two identical mesh systems to get extra satellites. That will also mean I’d have two base units.
Questions
1. Is it possible to use both base units of two identical brand/model systems in the same mesh? If not, I’ll have an unused base.
2. Given what I’ve described about the double house, the single ethernet cable running between them, and your answer to question #1, what deployment of components do you recommend? Obviously, one base unit will have to have a wired connection to the ISP’s router.
It’s only as helpful as how well you read it, Anydrew. So do it, and also other related links. This one will help, too. https://dongknows.com/home-mesh-brands-explained/.
Right now I’ve got 3x Asus RT-AC68U with Merlin f/w in AiMesh mode with wired backhaul. My house is roughly 4000 sq. ft. and my goal is to support 60+ 2.4ghz smart home devices plus other clients such as tablets, phones, etc. For the more advanced wireless clients I have as many on 5ghz as possible and also everything that can be wired is.
I’m having issues with wireless clients not connecting to the best AiMesh node and just general slowness with all WiFi devices. Even with 5ghz I find myself often just turning off WiFi on my phone even when I have a strong signal. My thought was to add a RT-AX86U as the main router hoping that the increased performance might help, but after reading your review and the comments that WiFi6 devices had bad 2.4ghz performance, I’m wondering if it’s something else.
I only have about half of the 60 switches installed and I’m wondering if I’m bumping up against a limitation of the technology. Any suggestions?
It’s not very clear what you were trying to say, Lesh, but the 86U might help. Also, try using them with Asus firmware. Generally, if you need help figuring things out, Merlin is not for you.
Hi Dong: Thanks sincerely for the wealth of info! Sorry if this is a duplicate question, but I’m still a little shaky on what’s best for homes where network wiring is not available such as mine. 1950’s 2k sq. ft. house, thick walls, AT&T gig fiber on far end, trying to determine which mesh system best suited for me. At first I thought triband WIFI 6 would give me the best odds but sounds like maybe that’s not the best without a wired backhaul? Any tips are greatly appreciated!
You need a tri-band system, Rick. That’s the only way for a fully wireless setup. How well that works still depends on the walls, though. There’s no magic. Maybe give this post another read and follow the related links.
Got it. Glad I asked so I’ll cancel the order I just placed for a dual band nighthawk mk63. Follow up question: if triband is critical, what about wifi 6? Thanks!
How can I determine the best spacing of my mesh nodes in a wired back-haul setup? I know that since its wired, it’s less important, but what are the considerations? For example: If they’re too close, will that create problems? Are there general rules like “space them 30-50 ft apart, with just one wall or floor between each”? Your guidance is appreciated.
Thanks!
Generally, Kelz, you want to put the remote satellite far enough so that its range has the least overlapping with that of the main router (or another satellite). It’s impossible to determine the exact distance since that varies based on the environment, but you can imagine each broadcaster emits signals somewhat in a sphere shape. This post talks more about Wi-Fi range and interferences.
Hi Dong, LOVE your website, thanks for this valuable information.
One question: You mentioned MOCA probably won’t cut it for a wired back haul, why not? It seems like many of the MOCA devices now are gigabit or above, which seems to be sufficient (https://www.screenbeam.com/products/home-networking/ecb6250/)
I’d like to use MOCA to both connect the router to the modem AND to connect each node to the router. Any reason I would not want to do this? (Other than increased cost in purchasing the MOCA devices).
Thanks!
MoCA is fine, Kelz. Just make sure your wiring is intact, and you use adapters of the latest standard that supports full-duplex (and not half-duplex). Also, don’t use the wiring for anything else (like TV signals) but the network.
I am currently using MOCA in the wired backhaul path of one of my satallite nodes in an aiMesh network, and it appears to be working just fine. There is TV on the cable as well.
Yeap, it generally works, David. It’s a matter of degrees. It’s best to use network cables, though.
It turns out I was wrong, when I went back and checked I had tried Moca, given up, and found another way to get a wired backhaul. It would be great if it worked, but so far I’m 0 for 2 on moca.
Hi Dong
What an awesome article this is, I am pretty tech savvy but hardly know a thing about networking but just reading this has taught me so much, glad I found your site
I’m getting virgin gig1 fibre tomorrow and not heard great things about their routers wifi coverage so definately thinking of getting a mesh setup, thinking either NETGEAR Orbi Whole Home Dual Band Mesh WiFi 6 System (RBK353) or ASUS ZenWiFi AX Whole-Home Tri-Band Mesh WiFi 6 System(XT8)
I live in a 3 storey house and there is 6 of us, and we have loads of wifi devices that use the network and I’ve got loads of smart home tech too, so it needs to handle a lot of traffic
The virgin hub itself will be in my living room so most devices connected to that will be connected via ethernet, but i’m guessing the 2 systems I posted above, one of the hubs will need to be connected to the virgin hub itself? and any others I can position around the house and I know to put the virgin hub in modem mode only
Wired backhaul won’t be an option for me even though I know it would be the best but running cables from each hub will be too difficult but as long as I’m hitting near 800-900 mbps with my wired devices downstairs i’m not too bothered if all the other devices around the house are only hitting 500 mbps. It’s mainly having strong wifi around the whole house so this avoids disconnects. Not sure of the exact size of my house but would you recommend a setup with 2 or 3 hubs as one will need to connected to the virgin hub and the other 1 or 2 could be on each floor
Forgive me for sounding a bit dumb here but I get wired backhaul but what do you do when you wireless backhaul, would that be when I’ve got the main hub connected to the virgin hub by wan and the other devices connected wirelessly to the main hub, also when putting the virgin media hub in modem mode, I’m guessing you can still use that hubs ethernet ports?
Thanks in advance for any help you can give me
Two things, Neil.
1. If you need to keep the Virgin hub (seems like you do), check out this post.
2. After that get the XT8, I think it’s going to work just by itself. If not, get another XT8 unit or two.
Hi Dong, I am trying to achieve as seemless roaming as I can. I currently have an upstairs network and a downstairs network using 2 Linksys EA- 6350 ethernet wired together. I ended up with two networks because my phones (samsung S7’s) would not switch from the upstairs router to the downstairs router when they were connected together to cascade until the signal was so bad that if I were talking on the phone no one could hear me. I could be connected on the upstairs router and standing right next to the downstairs router and the phone (Samsung S7’s) would not switch to the downstairs router. So I had to go to separate networks. Which is very problematic unless I always remember to switch networks. I now have a Samsung S10 and S20 phone that are supposed to support R/V/K. So I would like to find a mesh solution that supports 802.11R/V/K.
Most mesh systems (Velop, asus CT8, Asus mini XD4) do not specifically call out R/V/K or if the do (Nest, Google) they do not allow wired backhaul.
Do you have a recommendation for a dual band, router + 2 node (my house is 4200 sq ft rectangle) that can support wired backhaul and R/V/K? Lastly, can I connect the nodes daisy chain or should it be from the router to the individual nodes. Thanks in advance.
As I noted in the post, Mark, seamless handoff is a tricky thing. The good news is your current setup is not good so any of the mesh you mentioned will work better. I’d recommend the XD4, but you can get one of these. The post will explain more.
Hi, Dong, thank you so much for your amazing work on the site. I read quite a few articles and they really gave me a much in-depth understanding of a mesh system (I was first led to the site through looking for a review of TPlink’s Deco X60 and then can’t stop reading more of your articles). I really enjoy your down-to-earth tone and easy-to-understand yet technical reviews/explainers. With the knowledge learned here, I have purchased the Deco X60 (3pack) and planning to do a wired backhaul setup (house prewired). But I am debating on whether I should use the AP or router mode for the system. I am on a AT&T 1G fiber service and the Gateway is located in a quite hidden-away wirebox inside a small washer/dryer room (where all the prewired cables come out). I have a couple questions,
1. If I do the AP mode, I can use the three units as AP (wired) and put them at different rooms. In this case, would I be able to disable AT&T’s Gateway WiFi and use Deco’s Wifi or I need to keep the Gateway WiFi? Let’s say I keep the Gateway WiFi and use the 3 units as APs, would this be a good mesh system (seamless hand-off and coverage)? I am currently using an extender and it doesn’t work well since a lot of times I am standing right next to the extender but my phone is connected to the gateway (at 2nd floor) with very poor connection.
2. If I do the router mode, I need to put one unit next to the Gateway and kinda waste this unit since it will also be hidden away in a small and distance room. Do you think router mode is worth it in this case (a potential better overall performance and good mesh system with Deco’s NAT and WiFi)?
3. Do you think I should go with other brands or product for my setup? I can still return the Deco if you think there are better choices :).
Sorry for the long comments and questions. Thank you so much in advance!
Happy to have you, Roger. For your situation, I’d recommend the Asus XD4, which has lots more features, but the Deco X60 will do, too. I’d recommend putting your gateway in bridge mode. Check out this post for more on how to handle that gateway.
Thanks Dong! Already purchased the XD4 and will probably go with it considering the privacy concerns of Deco. I previously read the other article about handling gateway and it’s very informative! I really appreciate your help.
Sure, Roger! 🙂
I am also trying to decide between the Asus XD4 and the TP-Link Deco x60. I have a 2.5 story medium sized old home with 1 gig fiber, and if the price is the same I’m wondering which is better. Seems you recommend the XD4 but the X60 is significantly more powerful?
Go with the XD4, Bart.
The XD4 has been working great so far! Thanks Dong!
Roger that, Roger! 🙂 Thanks for sharing! And you’re welcome!
Thanks so much for the detailed article. I have a question on a specific mesh configuration – Linksys Velop MX4200 or MX5300 – with wired backhaul. Linksys recommends that the wired mesh components all be daisy-chained, i.e., parent to child-1 to child-2 to child-3, etc. Linksys also seems to suggest (and I am not fully sure I got it right) that by placing a switch between the parent and the children, all components can be connected directly to the switch, i.e., without requiring daisy-chaining. Why is that? Are the multiple Ethernet LAN ports on the parent already part of a built-in switch and if so, what difference would an external switch bring about? I guess, my real question is can the children be all wired in a star topology directly to the Ethernet LAN ports of the parent. Could you please clarify?
With wiring, you can connect them however you want, Sid. As long as the satellites are being the router, the mesh will work.
Hi Dong – I have read several of your articles and it has helped me a lot. I currently have AT&T Gigapower. I am currently planning to set up a wired mesh system with an Asus RT-AX86U as my main router behind an AT&T device in pass through mode. My question is should I purchase another RT-AX86U as the satellite point or is that overkill? If it is overkill, what should I use? Thanks!
You can get any dual-band AX AiMesh router, James. The 86U is great but it might be a bit overkill. So the 82U, 68U or even XD4.
So I installed the TP-Link Deco M9 plus (3 pack) router/APs since I was having coverage issues across the whole house with the Linksys 1900AC+.
Since installation I’ve noticed what appears to be WAN drop on a
frequent basis. I has local SSH connects to servers, and a VPN connection
to the office. I do not lose the local SSH connection, so its not the wifi
that drops. I lose the tunnel and SSH connections over that.. and ping to 8.8.8.8 drops for a bit..
Its at the latest firmware. Should I try putting the Deco M9 in AP mode and hang it off the Linksys? When working, the coverage is great and I’m getting good speeds all over the house. But the frequent drops are quite annoying.
—
Dan
I don’t know how to put them together, Dan. But you’re using multiple routers, check out this post. Also I’d recommend one of these Wi-Fi 5 mesh systems.
No, I am running the Deco M9 as the router, and the Linksys is off.
But I could switch the Deco M9 to AP mode and hang it off the Linksys. Was wondering if anyone knows why the TP-Link seems to
drop WAN side connection from time to time.
—
Dan
Dong:
You’re website is amazing and has been super helpful. One question I couldn’t find answered:. If you set up a mesh with wired backhaul does it matter whether your best router serves as a “satellite” rather than the primary unit?
Always use the router with the most features as the main unit, Todd. More here in the case of Asus’s AiMesh.
Dong,
Great article.. I just finished wiring my house with cat 6 and used my old google mesh to attempt to wire them As wired access points. I am getting major signal loss when I tap them into the wired vs using wirelessly. I do have 3 switches connected throughout the house to navigate wire traffic, they are unmanned switches Netgear GS108v4. Could the switch be attempting to assign an address to each “puck” and creating the issue, or is it that the Google Mesh doesn’t support backhaul, and that is causing my issue? I am thinking based on your article I may be able to move to the Asus ZenWifi AX Mini and get the result I am looking for from the benefits of having just wired my home.
Any advice appreciated
Not sure what you’re trying to say,Chris, but you can’t compare the performance of a wired connection vis a wireless one. Also, Google mesh sucks. Go with the XD4.
Thank you! What I was trying to say is when I connect them to the hardwire connection they actually run slower than when I run them as a wireless network.. I will take you advice and ditch them for sure!
Sure, Chris. 🙂
Hi, there.
I’m new to this concept, but believe I have the need for a mesh network. I live in a two story + basement home (each story is approx. 1259 sq. ft.). I have gigabit internet and would like solid coverage on all three levels, plus out back and in the garage.
Which system would you suggest, and can you tell me a bit about placement? (Ie. would I need one on each floor, etc.).
Please let me know if I left out any pertinent information you may need.
Thanks!
Read the post again, Kevin. This time with some attention. Also, note the included related links. You’re asking me to repeat myself. 🙂
I apologize, I went back to re-read and did not see mention of placement in a home regarding varying floors. I do see where you mention interruption from walls and preferred distances apart. Should I have a satellite on each floor of the home (assuming the main router accounts for one floor)?
Lastly, you made mention that it’s preferred to wire for best performance. If it’s possible to backwire one satellite, but not another, should I do that or operate completely wireless?
Thanks!
No worries, Kevin. Glad you found the answers. And yes, you can (generally) mixed wireless and wired backhaul. How that works out depends on the hardware. But a mixed wired/wireless is generally better than full wireless. For a particular set of mesh, I mentioned the backhaul notion in all of my reviews.
Thanks for the insight. I am new to this domain so probably digested about 50% of this. Perhaps you can clarify two questions I have. I live in a relatively newer condo building in Singapore with cement walls in a T shape condo unit so having issues extending to the ends of the “T”. I use the Nokia Beacon 1, as per our local service provider. I tried using two additional/older Linksys EA7500 routers in a mesh set up (connecting them to access points in the wall) but the Linksys routers always dropped their connection and had to be reset, so I am relying on the Nokia Beacon 1 for all.
1.) Can you mix wireless router brands for a mesh system? Or should I buy another Nokia Beacon to cover the apartment?
2.) To clarify, for the Wired backhaul, does that mean linking each wireless router by an ethernet cable? (as opposed to plugging them in the wall…which I understand is the Mesh AP set up)? Does the length of the cable matter ie. if I buy it too long but wrap up the excess…does that have any positive or negative impact? Based on the answer to #1, which do you recommend I use…mesh or wired?
Appreciate your response…I am a novice so this is new to me. My kids would appreciate any support that can supplement my knowledge!!
Welcome aboard, Brad.
First, reread this post. I noted you asked questions I already addressed in it.
Done? OK.
1. No. And you should get a different mesh, the Nokia is pretty bad. Since you have wired backhaul, get a dual-band set in this list. I’d recommend the Asus XD4.
2. Yes, basically, you use a network cable to link the router unit and the satellite unit. Plugging in the wall is the same thing as long the current network port and the other one at the far end are two ends of the same cable (behind the wall.) More in this post.
When you have time, check out this post, it’s a place to start.
Hi Dong,
I am currently using a router with OpenWRT firmware and I love it. However, the WIFI is not that great. Do you think 3 or 4 nodes of the Nokia Beacon 1 in bridge mode with wired backhaul will be good to complement my openwrt router? Or do you still think it is better to go with something else.
Thank you very much for any advice.
You’d better go with something else, Hwai. Or think of running network cables.
Hi Dong, and thank you for your phenomenal trove of wisdom. Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere. I live in a 30m long, three story victorian semi. The ISP enters on the first floor 2/3 back. There it meets asus 88u distribution router This router and powerline feeds the ground floor and a couple access points downstairs. No issues there really. An rj45 runs to the front first floor into an 87u. So far so good on first floor. All same ssids in a primitive mesh.The loft office is the problem and cannot get a cable up there. Roughly equidistant from the 87 and 88 signals. Tried powerline and tplink 365 but very poor results. Next option is aimesh. The 88u main router is already capable. Thinking to buy two asus (ct8, xt8, 92 or similar), replace the front 87u and position the second node in the loft. Main question: does aimesh allow to mix the existing cable from 88u as wired backhaul, with wireless backhaul up to the loft? Or do i need to make all three wireless? Any other tips hugely appreciated. Again, thank you so much for being.
Check out this post, Gerrard.
Thank you sir. So i have settled on the asus AC3000 linked below, also described as a CT8, which matches your AC3000 CT8 review except here it is a tri-band, whereas your review says dual-band.
Wonder if this is a regional difference in UK/EU?
Plan is to:
1. leave my ASUS RT-AC88U AC3100 in situ as internet gateway, 2. Deploy one AC3000 to replace the 87u, adding the 88u to it’s mesh via wired backhaul.
3. Second AC3000 will become the untethered loft mesh using its third band to backhaul to Node 1.
4. 87u gets redeployed elsewhere as AP on e.g. powerline.
5. Review
Regards, Gerrard
That one is the ZenWiFi CT8, Gerrard. Not sure why they call it AC3000, which is just a designation used in many routers. That said:
1 and 2. You can do that but remember that chances are you’ll waste the CT8’s 2nd 5GHz band. More here — read the section carefully!
3. That won’t happen. You can’t mix tri-band and dual-band and expect them to work like that. At least for now.
4. Don’t use powerline, it’s too slow.
Hey Dong,
Thought I would bring some feedback now that the CT8s are installed as per my post. I left my ASUS RT-AC88U (dual band) in situ as internet gateway and replaced the upstream 87u with one CT8/AC3000, which the 88u meshes via Ethernet uplink/backhaul. The second loft CT8 is actually using its third band to uplink/backhaul to Node 1, so it seems I am able to mix successfully ethernet and 5g backhauls.
Result: in the dead-zone that was my loft, I am now getting 1053mbps according to the router app. It sometimes drops from “Great” to “OK” but hitting the optimise button or switching off/on restores it – although even the OK speeds are great to me! Although I am probably wasting a band, it seemed a good price vs dual band options, and maybe it will come in handy at a later date. Also the extra rj45 ports are useful. Totally pleased overall and thanks again for the advice!
That’s awesome! Thanks for sharing, Gerrard.
I have a Verizon Gateway router and three (3) Verizon extenders (all connected by coax), still have a wifi dead spot (large apartment with concrete block walls). Can I add an Asus mesh for dead spot while keeping existing system?
You can’t have an AiMesh setup with just one hardware unit, Richard. But you can use any access point there, or router in AP mode.
Clear article.
You DO recommend wired backhaul and I DID this.
Regarding the network setup of a wired mesh to a modem/router combo from my ISP:
I would like to have one network with all devices visible, I guess that means the same 3 octets of IPs. Can a wired Mesh system be set-up in a bridge mode to accomplish that?
Check out this post on double NAT, Liviu.
ASUS AiMesh handle the mesh as Single NAT? or double? or multiple (= number of nodes)?
I would also like to ask if there is a competition to AiMesh from other brands? I read your explanation about OneMesh. Anything else?
A mesh is always a single NAT, Liviu. That’s the whole point of a home mesh. There’s none, except maybe Synology Mesh, which is only available in Wi-Fi 5 for now with a limited router options.
Hoya, interesting read. So i’ve got x3 deco M5 in the hous I got another m5e and it works really well. Have a very old netgear nighthawk EX7000 in a seperate building 25m from main house which is rubbish. Am I right in thinking it would be better if i got another m5 unit down there and connected it to one of the m5 units in the house with an ethernet cable it would solve my problem?
I’d help, but not by much, Nick. With that distance, you might need a wired backhaul.
Think the Deco supports that. I’ll wire it up and see what happens. Thanks for the reply!
Hi Dong
Really interesting article and helped me realise that most reviewers of systems gave gigabit internet.
I’m in the UK and only have 76mbps and my parents less than 35mbps.
I have a wired gigabit network around my house and my parents don’t. I’m looking to get a mesh system for both.
I know I can go dual band, so long as the mesh system has ethernet ports but would my parents benefit from from tri-band? My father as issues with the Macbook dropping form the WiFi, so being able to connect to a node wired would be helpful.
The other issue is that my house is Victorian and my parents house whilst 1970s, has various walls so reach dead spots is important.
The other thing I’ve noticed is that many of the systems don’t seem to allow the assigning of static IP addresses to devices, which is something I have done and wish to continue to do.
I read about the Decor M9 but reviews claim it’s erratic. I don’t want something that one has to keep resetting.
If there is a problem, it can be helpful to look at logs. I get the impression app ones won’t allow such a thing.
All this leads me to a point where I don’t think I’ve found what I’m looking for because no one has made it. I could be wrong though.
Yes, if you want to go fully wireless Tri-band is better. Considering the slow Intenet speeds, though, a dual-band system will work fine for both of you. Just get one on this list.
Thanks. Very helpful. I will solely look at range and features. A friend recommend a BT one [UK telecommunications company], so I’m starting with that one.
Hello Dong,
Could you clarify the difference between a mesh system such as the Linksys Velop and a router that has mesh functionality such as the Linksys MR9600?
I am confused and it seems each manufacturer has some kind of dual offering like this.
Is it mostly marketing and at equal specifications the mesh system is simplified as much as possible (mobile app management, few settings, pretty much plug&play) whereas the router provide more features (web ui, multiple ethernet ports, extensive settings, etc.), or is there actual real differentiation in the way they work.
(I couldn’t find an article on the topic so feel free to redirect me to the right place).
I tried the TP-Link Deco X60 but was struggling with the lack of ethernet.
I gave a try to the Linksys Velop MX4200 which seems decent.
In either case, I don’t like the idea of the online mobile UI.
My home is about 1500sqt but I would like to cover a small office shed in the backyard and cover the backyard as well. I think a unit in my home and one in my shed should be sufficient.
You can consider all Linksys Wi-Fi routers as a Velop unit, Ken. I mentioned that in the review of the MR9600. Your home is relatively small, you might be able to get away with a single unit. You can start with one on this list, pick one that mesh-ready in case you want to scale up the coverage.
Is ASUS looking at allowing me to pin a device to an AIMESH router?
How has AI-Mesh improved over the last two years?
Have they published what features they add and what improvements they have made with firmware?
I run the AI-Mesh system in my house with an RT-AC68U (East and West End downstairs) as satellites connected with cat6 and an RT-AC88U (Upstairs Center of house) as the main point connecting to the 500Mbps Xfinity connection.
Problem I have is cameras and other devices hop and end up on one of the routers. The hoping messes with the Nest Cameras and takes them offline all the time. Also they get stuck on the weakest signal or one that is not closest. I can walk upstairs, work for a few minutes and then walk to the other side of the house and now I am stuck and garbage speed and no transition to closer router. I would like to stick cameras to device as well and now do it by making one the routers an AP instead and naming it a different network called east and west. Problem is does not create more interference?
Yes, David. AiMesh 2.0 should give you that. You’ll be able to force a device to connect to a particular node manually. As for how AiMesh progresses, if you started following my post 2 years ago, you’d know. There’s no way I can give you a list of all that has changed. Or you can read the release notes of a particular router’s firmware versions.